RHA officer collar badges

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

From Regimental Badges by Major T J Edwards (Fourth Edition published 1966)
Royal Horse Artillery, Collar Badge - As Beret Badge (i.e. The royal Cypher within the Garter etc...)

I have now been through all the RHA Annual Historical Returns, only one Regiment mentions new collar badges and that was in 1970. Also been through all the copies of 'Gunner' from 1960 to 1971 no photographs of the RHA wearing a different collar badge to the RA Grenade. That is until May 1970 when 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery provided a Guard of Honour for HM Queen Elizabeth II, all members were wearing Number 1 Dress with cap lines and RHA collar badges.

[badjez]

Marc,

Amongst my notes I have the following:-

1) '03.12.24. ACI 693: WO, NCO and men of RHA henceforth to wear grenade collar badges on SD in common with the remainder of the RA.'
[What did the RHA wear before they adopted the grenade?]

2) 27.10.48. ACI 963:
Ref ACI 179 of 1948, approval given for the adoption of a new design of cap badge for officers and other ranks of the RHA:-
a) Officers- The Royal Cypher within the Garter, surmounted by a crown. Beneath, a scroll bearing the words ‘Royal Horse Artillery’; in gilt.
b) OR- Design as for officers but in gilding metal. Demands will not be submitted.
c) Collar badges & buttons remained unchanged.

[for information ACI 179, dated 03.03.48. introduced the decision that the existing cap badge (the gun) was too large for wear with the beret, and a smaller badge, reduced to two-thirds the size of that at present in use, had been authorised. The new badge was the regulation pattern for wear on all berets and also the coloured forage (i.e. peaked) cap worn with optional undress uniform. Officers’ badges were to be in gilt; those for other ranks gilding metal]

3)WO32/1299.
01.03.48. Letter dated states HM King approved RHA badge on beret. Sample shown to HM was gilt for officers and GM for O/Rs.
30.03.48. Gaunt supplied samples in gilt, plate and GM.
08.05.48. WO request Gaunt supply specimens as Sealed Pattern in gilt and GM.
12.10.48 New badge introduced by ACI 3338. Old badges to be withdrawn and new design worn from February 1949.

4) NATIONAL ARMY MUSEUM- Stevenage.
RHA Sealed Pattern card 13989 dated 28.08.48. CB 2386. Spec UK/CIC/208B.
All GM KC cipher with slider stamped JR Gaunt London in very small lettering.

5) According to K&K there was also a WM GvR version worn as a pugaree badge.

I am now even more confused about where the WM GviR badge fitted into the jigsaw!
Stephen.

[Eddie Parks]

I am in Lebanon at present and I don't have my books - but I think the thing you have to bear in mind is that Pre-War RHA Batteries were as near as you could get to being private armies and still be on the Whitehall pay roll. Most interwar Battery Commanders were brevet Lt Cols and dripping with DSOs and MCs. They really didn't care what the regulations said.

Marc will know much more than me but I understand that the cypher was first introduced in India as a pugree badge. They were specific to each battery and were private purchase. The WM badges continued to be worn in WW2 by ORs only and were still unofficial.

Post war the RHA COs got together and lobbied for the cypher to be made official. It finally was but in gilt/gm not WM - and to be provided at regimental expense. Only 2 RHA was stationed in the UK at the time and they were the only regiment to wear GM cyphers all others continued to wear WM.

Finally it was agreed that the cypher should be WM. The only cypher worn by RHA officers is the gilt wire version in the beret and the side hat.

Ball buttons worn on full dress (officially Kings Troop only but most regiments have a limited supply for guards etc) No 1 and No 2 dress + SD. Only down the front.

Officer's mess kit jacket has 6 (I think my memory's gone!) large and 8 medium buttons, the waistcoat a further four tiny ones. These should all be gilt with a separate mounted gun. They are virtually unobtainable and when I got my jacket (RA speak for being posted to RHA) they were quoted as £18 EACH. Fortunately I had my grandfathers and nobody ever noticed they had Victorian crowns.

And then there's the matter of coloured backings!

Bottom line is there are very few certainties in RHA dress.

Eddie

[54Bty]

Part 1

Royal Horse Artillery (text only)

G Battery Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of King George V in the centre of the Garter with a large scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a Tudor Crown. The known examples of this badge do not have the V in the Cypher. Private purchase, brass or silver. 1934-1935

The Royal Cypher of King Edward VIII in the centre of the Garter with a large scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a Tudor Crown. Private purchase, silver. 1936.

The Royal Cypher of King George VI in the centre of the Garter with a large scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a Tudor Crown. Private purchase, silver. 1936-1938

E Battery Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of King George V in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a Tudor Crown. Solid. Private purchase, silver. 1933-1934 and 1935-1936.

In 1934 the Battery Commander Major E. Latham MC., ordered all non-regulation badges to be removed. But it re-appeared in 1935, for the records of Firmin & Son, who made the badge, have it listed as "a Pagri badge for E Bty RHA for wear on the Silver Jubilee Parades" which were held in May that year.
The badge was die cast in white metal with the manufacturer's name in raised letters on the smooth back. Those for EVIII and GVI were similarly marked.

The Royal Cypher of King Edward VIII in the centre of the Garter with a small scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a large Tudor Crown. Private purchase, silver. 1936

The Royal Cypher of King George VI in the centre of the Garter with a small scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a large Tudor Crown. Worn by E Battery RHA from 1936-1938. Then originated by the Commanding Officer of 1st Regiment Royal Horse Artillery, for wear by all the RHA. Private purchase, in silver. 1936-1938 and up to 1954.

Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of King George VI in the centre of the Garter with a small scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a large Tudor Crown. Originated by the Commanding Officer of 1st Regiment Royal Horse Artillery, for wear by all members of the RHA. Before official authority could be obtained WWII started, but the badge was unofficially adopted by all RHA Regiments and worn throughout the war. Private purchase, in silver and white metal. 1939-1948.

2nd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of King George VI in the centre of the Garter with a small scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a small Tudor Crown. Pattern 13989, sealed 24th August 1948, CB 2386 (introduced by change 4245 September 1950). Other Ranks issue, in brass. 1948-1954

The Royal Cypher of King George VI in the centre of the Garter with a small scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a small Tudor Crown embroidered in gold wire and coloured thread into a scarlet background. Worn on the left side of the Officers side hat. Known to have been worn by Officers in 2nd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery.

[54Bty]

Part 2.

Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. Other Ranks private purchase in brass. 1954-

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. Pattern 15654, sealed 28th November 1956, CB 2372. Other Ranks issue in brass. 1954-1971

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. Pattern 19627, sealed 22nd March 1966, CB 3035.
Other Ranks issue in gold anodised aluminium. 1966-1971

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. Officers issue in gilt. 1954-1971

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. NSN CB 8455-99-973-9782. Officers issue in silver plate.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. This version has had the seeded background to the scrolls removed, so that the wording is clearer. Void EIIR. Pattern 19786, resealed 2nd June 1981, NSN CB 8455-99-973-9782. Other Ranks issue silver anodised aluminium.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown. This version has had the seeded background to the scrolls removed, so that the wording is clearer. Solid EIIR. Other Ranks issue silver anodised aluminium.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown, embroidered in gold wire and coloured thread into a scarlet background. Officers beret, private purchase. 1971-1989. Officers side hat, private purchase. 1971-

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown embroidered in gold wire and coloured thread into a dark blue background. Officers beret, private purchase. 1989-

7th Parachute Regiment Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown embroidered in gold wire and coloured thread into a maroon background, with a red backing to the centre. Officers maroon beret, private purchase. 1971-1976 and 1984-1989.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown embroidered in gold wire and coloured thread into a maroon background. Officers maroon beret, private purchase. 1989-

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in silver anodised aluminium worn on a maroon beret. Other Ranks issue. 1966-1976 and 1984

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in silver anodised aluminium with a maroon backing to the Cypher in the centre. The backing was unofficially adopted in 1977 to commemorate their previous parachute role with the Airborne Forces. 1977-1984.

3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown silver metal or anodised aluminium with a red backing to the Cypher in the centre. The unofficially worn backing is claimed to commemorate the award of the Victoria Cross to 2nd Lieutenant George Ward Gunn RHA for his own actions and that of J Battery RHA during the Battle at Sidi Rezegh on the 19th of November 1942.
The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in black with a red backing to the Cypher in the centre, printed onto a green twill cloth background. Worn on the Jungle Hat. Hong Kong 1971-1973 and in Belize 1976.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in black with a red backing to the centre, embroidered into a sand coloured twill cloth background with a merrowed edge. Worn on the Desert Disruptive Pattern Material helmet cover, in Iraq during 2005.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in black with a red backing to the centre, embroidered into an Olive Green twill cloth background with a green merrowed edge. Was to be worn on the Temperate Disruptive Pattern Material helmet cover. Circa 2005, never left the RSM’s office.

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in black with a red backing to the centre, printed onto a white twill cloth background. Possibly for 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery due to the red centre.

J (Sidi Rezegh) Anti Tank Battery Royal Horse Artillery

The Royal Cypher of Queen Elizabeth II in the centre of the Garter with a scroll below inscribed ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY, ensigned by a St. Edward's Crown in silver anodised aluminium with a red backing to the Cypher in the centre. Worn from 1977 until 1984 when the Regiments batteries were reunited to reform 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery.


In 1954 the War Office conducted a survey into the different types of badges being worn in the beret by members in the Royal Horse Artillery Regiments. The reason for the survey was due to a manufacturer asking the War Office to confirm if white metal was the correct material for the badges he had been privately asked to make.

The results of the survey for Officers only was;

1st Regiment Royal Horse Artillery Silver plated.
2nd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery Gold embroidered.
3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery Silver plated.
4th Regiment Royal Horse Artillery Gilt.
5th Regiment Royal Horse Artillery Silver plated.

It is probably safe to assume that the corresponding metal badge was being worn by the Other Ranks. 2nd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery were issued the brass badge.
The regulation issued badges were Gilt for Officers and Brass for Other Ranks.

Marc J. Sherriff © 2005

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by badjez

1) '03.12.24. ACI 693: WO, NCO and men of RHA henceforth to wear grenade collar badges on SD in common with the remainder of the RA.'
[What did the RHA wear before they adopted the grenade?]

[for information ACI 179, dated 03.03.48. introduced the decision that the existing cap badge (the gun) was too large for wear with the beret, and a smaller badge, reduced to two-thirds the size of that at present in use, had been authorised. The new badge was the regulation pattern for wear on all berets and also the coloured forage (i.e. peaked) cap worn with optional undress uniform. Officers’ badges were to be in gilt; those for other ranks gilding metal]

1. Nothing, and in 1926 the 1924 order was cancelled for the RHA. On the introduction of Number 2 Dress RA grenades were worn, some Regiments had them chromed.

The 'Coloured Forage Cap' is the coloured version of the Khaki Field Service Cap (side hat), on which the RHA were already wearing their own PP badge.

The RHA have always done what they want to do, and continue to do so.

[tynesideirish]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

However I can not confirm that the white metal badge is for the collar.

As an ex member of this fine body of men I can confirm the first badge is for the collar.
Private purchase white metal for wear in the beret.

[badjez]

To Marc and everyone else who contributed- 'THANK YOU'.
I now think I understand...

Stephen.

[Vincent]

Thanks for all the information.
An example of ball buttons found with RHA badge on Dunkirk's beaches...I hope this can be helpful...

[1stTankie]

The RHA have always done what they want to do, and continue to do so.[/QUOTE]

Hi Marc

Posts bordering on a PhD thesis!! I salute you sir.

Many thanks for such a prodigious effort; surely there can be no further questions relating to those who wear the "jacket".

Best wishes

Gordon

PS I have fond memories of 4RHA's arrival at Fanling Barracks, New Territories, c1958, to be equipped with 4.2" mortars!

[54Bty]

Here is one that should not exist.

Slider marked in very small letters J.R.GAUNT.LONDON

[jeanpit-frenchy]

very interesting post

i have 2 differents QEII RHA collars one is lugged E-W and one N-S

The belt carrying the motto "honi soit qui mal y pense" is knotted with some differences.

only a different makers patern or something special ?

cheers

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

very interesting post

i have 2 differents QEII RHA collars one is lugged E-W and one N-S

The belt carrying the motto "honi soit qui mal y pense" is knotted with some differences.

only a different makers patern or something special ?

cheers

Please read posts 19 and 20 on page 2.

[tynesideirish]

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

very interesting post

i have 2 differents QEII RHA collars one is lugged E-W and one N-S

The belt carrying the motto "honi soit qui mal y pense" is knotted with some differences.

only a different makers patern or something special ?

cheers

Hi Jeanpit,
It was always said when I served that: The garter belt end is tucked behind the garter on issued badges it goes over the top on Private purchase. This is true as I have my insignia to this day and it rings true in my case. Not sure why but it's a fact*. Something to do with crown copyright?

* However there's always exceptions in badge wearing!

[jeanpit-frenchy]

Originally Posted by tynesideirish

Hi Jeanpit,
It was always said when I served that: The garter belt end is tucked behind the garter on issued badges it goes over the top on Private purchase. This is true as I have my insignia to this day and it rings true in my case. Not sure why but it's a fact*. Something to do with crown copyright?

* However there's always exceptions in badge wearing!

thank you tynesideirish...

after looking the garter on ASC and engineers badges i see you are right ,It seems that the maker of the collar of my picture 3 made an error..., nobody is perfect..

cheers