EU referendum

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by MarkGD

BWEF,
Many thanks for the link, which i have read, in the very first document, section two it states

"We will take control of our own affairs, as those who voted in their millions to leave the EU demanded we must, and bring an end to the jurisdiction in the UK of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU)"

this will be achieved by

"to repeal the European Communities Act 1972, and in so doing, return power to UK politicians and institutions" from section one.

As you state - the governments own document. Regards Mark

Mark

Maybe you should have taken the time to read the Brexit White Paper more thoroughly?

have not read it since it first came out, but here is the part I was referring to:

Parliamentary sovereignty (2.1)

The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.

Thanks for giving me the "push" to look that out, and read their proposals with hindsight. In the end I had to stop reading because i was laughing so much.

Following on from the preface from "warm up comediian", David Davis, they speak of, for example:

3. Strengthening the Union
4. Protecting our strong and historic ties with Ireland and maintaining the Common Travel Area

How is that working out thus far?

[gb64]

Originally Posted by BWEF

error

In my opinion this is your best post so far.

Gerard

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by High Wood

Your post: No 144. "On 19 Apr 2017 - Lenin said. “Crush the Saboteurs.”".

I wonder if you can be so kind as to tell me how I can say the Daily Mail was quoting Lenin without mentioning the name of Lenin and giving the date when he said the quote in question? That will be a good party trick if you can tell me how it is done.

I would be rather more impressed with you if you could tell me by what right the Daily Mail attacked British judges and the House of Lords for doing their job. In particular, as one of the main reasons that YOU PEOPLE claim to want to leave the EU is because you want British sovereignty, with our laws being paramount.

It is also a bit rich for the Daily Mail to have led this hate campaign. The Daily Mail supported Mussolini in the 1920s and Hitler and the British Union of Fascists, or Blackshirts, in the 1930s:.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by gb64

In my opinion this is your best post so far.

Gerard

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by BWEF

I wonder if you can be so kind as to tell me how I can say the Daily Mail was quoting Lenin without mentioning the name of Lenin and giving the date when he said the quote in question? That will be a good party trick if you can tell me how it is done.

I would be rather more impressed with you if you could tell me by what right the Daily Mail attacked British judges and the House of Lords for doing their job. In particular, as one of the main reasons that YOU PEOPLE claim to want to leave the EU is because you want British sovereignty, with our laws being paramount.

It is also a bit rich for the Daily Mail to have led this hate campaign. The Daily Mail supported Mussolini in the 1920s and Hitler and the British Union of Fascists, or Blackshirts, in the 1930s:.

Since when did being a member of the House of Lords, that pointless bunch of useless old farts, qualify as a job?.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by gb64

In my opinion this is your best post so far.

Gerard

I would have expected a more cogent argument from a "Diehard".

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by Hoot

Since when did being a member of the House of Lords, that pointless bunch of useless old farts, qualify as a job?.

Since when?

Since all the new British laws that you claim to want will never become laws unless the bill passes the House of Lords.

Somewhere in this thread I have said that this country is badly in need of electoral reform. Mainly PR for the Commons, but we also need a re-jigged upper house.

However, we are where we are. If the Lords don't do their job you don't get the changes to our legislation that you think you want.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Since when?

Since all the new British laws that you claim to want will never become laws unless the bill passes the House of Lords.

Somewhere in this thread I have said that this country is badly in need of electoral reform. Mainly PR for the Commons, but we also need a re-jigged upper house.

However, we are where we are. If the Lords don't do their job you don't get the changes to our legislation that you think you want.

That is not a job, they don't work for a living, they are just a bunch of self-serving parasites that leech off the taxpayer, a medieval throwback that has no place in a modern society. The sooner the House of Lords is done away with the better. They cost this country a fortune and they serve no useful purpose at all.

[BWEF]

[QUOTE=High Wood;462716]I am getting very bored with this thread now as trying to reason with a remainer is like banging one's head against a brick wall. I will respond to the bizarre statements that you have made in your last post but that is it.


If you have been bored, you should do what I do under those circumstances, and not read the posts/poster in question. Very wise decision not to reply if you are bored I would say..

After all, its not as if those evil overlords of the EU had "sent the boys round" to force you to read my posts and reply to them.


I would respectfully suggest that you take some time to reflect on the fact that other people have different opinions to yourself. That doesn't make them right or wrong, good or bad, just different. If you want to change people's opinions, try using logic, tact and respect rather than sweeping generalisations, name calling and vitriol. You will catch more butterflies using honey than you will with vinegar.

I have said above that many of my friends and family voted for Brexit, However, I would not class them as "jack booted fascists". I would class them as misled or delusional.


I am neither misled or delusional but, as I doubt that you are a qualified psychiatrist, your opinion of my sanity is of no interest to me. If, I was daft enough to believe anything that I saw on the side of a bus, I would still be drinking Double Diamond and eating Findus Crispy Pancakes.

Well, I dunno. You seem to be daft enough to believe that Brexit will help the life chances of the British people as a whole.

Even my cousin who has as good as signed her own death warrant in the event of a no deal Brexit.


Not sure what this means but it does sound a tad dramatic.


To me it sounds realistic. My cousin, the widow of a regular soldier, lives alone in the countryside. She is in her 70s and a type 1 Diabetic. She has been kept alive by insulin since she was a schoolgirl, and voted Leave on the promise of the extra money for the NHS.

She is now terrified that she will go into a coma and possibly die if there is any glitch in her supply of insulin. If insulin is being imported by the RAF and distributed by the army and/or police I suggest that my cousin will not have the certainty of supply that Diabetic Theresa May has.

By the way, i did say this above. No doubt, being bored, you missed it.

You people have quoted Communists and neo Nazis and are now starting to call the Prime Minister a traitor.


I am not sure who 'you people' are but I have spoken only for myself. I have neither quoted communists nor neo Nazis. I have quoted Joe Strummer, John Lennon, Joseph Goebbels and Jean Claude Juncker, none of whom are communists or neo Nazis, but, as I have never met any of them, you will have to take my word for it. I have called no one a traitor.


Its not all about you.

You are just one of the over 17 million who voted Brexit. "You people" are the Brexiteers in general.

True, you have not quoted any neo Nazis, just an actual old fashioned Nazi. Others have called people traitors and quoted neo Nazi's right here in this thread

The simple fact is that Brexit can not be done without wrecking our economy, no matter what you voted for. I would have thought that the chaos in Parliament would have been ample proof of this.


I refer you to the J.G. quote mentioned earlier. The constant repetition of your 'wrecking the economy' statement does not make it true. The economy has already been wrecked, trillions in debt, billions of bank notes printed, ten years of austerity and debt levels now as high as before the last financial crash and interest rates at an all time low. A complete zombie economy. What is there left to wreck?


What is there left to wreck? How about the NHS and the Benefits system for the old and sick?

How about the loss of rights and safety legislation for those at work?

I do realise that other people have different opinions to mine. Over 17 million people in fact, as Brexiteers are fond of saying.

However, opinions are not facts. In the face of facts all you have to offer is: "The country has had enough of experts" and "Project Fear" and so on. Despite these slogans you accuse me of "sweeping generalisations"?

There are now 100 days to go before the proposed date of Brexit. All of the leaders of industry are saying that a no deal Brexit will be a disaster, and this is why it will not happen.

Here is an example from today, from Reuters:

“Businesses have been watching in horror as politicians have focused on factional disputes rather than practical steps that business needs to move forward,” the heads of Britain’s five biggest business lobby groups said.

“The lack of progress in Westminster means that the risk of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit is rising,” said the bosses of the British Chambers of Commerce, the Confederation of British Industry, the Federation of Small Businesses, the Institute of Directors and the main manufacturers’ organization EEF."

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUKKBN1OI0PX

Don't tell me, don't tell me, "Project Fear"

[Volunteer Soldier]

Enough is surely enough. The ranting has reached the pathetic stage. To those wishing to continue the debate may T ask, please, to transfer your vitriol to the social media? Stop it now.

BWEF,
Thank you for your reply, you must be a 'superior being' knowing what i have, and have not read. I can understand why you didn't reply to the original statement, and felt the need to divert to, and take a passage out of context only to show your virtue signalling. It doesn't help your case when you feel the need to make a cheap jibe at the former British Army Officer David Davis to assist your views and on a site such as this.

Instead of being a contrarian i believe you are a 'troll' sir (to use the modern vernacular) and I will waste my time no more, with your nonsense. Regards Mark

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Volunteer Soldier

Enough is surely enough. The ranting has reached the pathetic stage. To those wishing to continue the debate may T ask, please, to transfer your vitriol to the social media? Stop it now.

What are you getting so wound up about?. This is the "OFF TOPIC" section, you don't have to read it.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by MarkGD

BWEF,
Thank you for your reply, you must be a 'superior being' knowing what i have, and have not read. I can understand why you didn't reply to the original statement, and felt the need to divert to, and take a passage out of context only to show your virtue signalling. It doesn't help your case when you feel the need to make a cheap jibe at the former British Army Officer David Davis to assist your views and on a site such as this.

Instead of being a contrarian i believe you are a 'troll' sir (to use the modern vernacular) and I will waste my time no more, with your nonsense. Regards Mark

As I said in my original post, that I read when the Brexit White Paper came out, our laws are paramount. I said it as a statement of fact, that you queried.

Sure, they do pass EU legislation, but the operative word is pass. All you have displayed is that politicians say two different things at the same time.

If you did indeed read the whole Brexit White Paper, you would have been far more honest to include the quote that I added. You knew it was there, but left it out.

To have been in "The Regiment" Davis must have been a better soldier than he was a Brexit Secretary.

He was however, right on one point. In November 2002, Before he changed his mind, he said, in the House of Commons:


"26 Nov 2002 : Column 201—continued

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I am sorry to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman, but the exchanges across the Chamber are not helping the debate.

David Davis: There is a proper role for referendums in constitutional change, but only if done properly. If it is

26 Nov 2002 : Column 202
not done properly, it can be a dangerous tool. The Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, who is no longer in the Chamber, said that Clement Attlee—who is, I think, one of the Deputy Prime Minister's heroes—famously described the referendum as the device of demagogues and dictators. We may not always go as far as he did, but what is certain is that pre-legislative referendums of the type the Deputy Prime Minister is proposing are the worst type of all.

Referendums should be held when the electorate are in the best possible position to make a judgment. They should be held when people can view all the arguments for and against and when those arguments have been rigorously tested. In short, referendums should be held when people know exactly what they are getting. So legislation should be debated by Members of Parliament on the Floor of the House, and then put to the electorate for the voters to judge.

We should not ask people to vote on a blank sheet of paper and tell them to trust us to fill in the details afterwards. For referendums to be fair and compatible with our parliamentary process, we need the electors to be as well informed as possible and to know exactly what they are voting for. Referendums need to be treated as an addition to the parliamentary process, not as a substitute for it."

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...t/21126-17.htm

By "Troll" I assume you mean somebody who does no agree with you?

Or should I say somebody who agrees with the David Davis of 22nd November 2002?

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by gb64

In my opinion this is your best post so far.

Gerard

Mine too.
Andy

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Mine too.
Andy

Do you mean to say that you did not care for my last post?

You know, the one above yours?