EU referendum

BWEF,
Many thanks for the link, which i have read, in the very first document, section two it states

"We will take control of our own affairs, as those who voted in their millions to leave the EU demanded we must, and bring an end to the jurisdiction in the UK of the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU)"

this will be achieved by

"to repeal the European Communities Act 1972, and in so doing, return power to UK politicians and institutions" from section one.

As you state - the governments own document. Regards Mark

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Firstly, to repeat, I did not quote Lenin. I pointed out that what the the Daily Mail said on its front page was a quote from Lenin.

Your post: No 144. "On 19 Apr 2017 - Lenin said. “Crush the Saboteurs.”".

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

EU laws in areas for which the EU is responsible override any conflicting laws of member countries.

Two important ideas make this system work. These are ‘supremacy’, meaning the higher status of EU laws compared to national laws, and ‘direct effect’, meaning that EU laws can be relied on in court.

Both these constitutional principles were recognised decades ago in leading decisions of the EU court.

The court said that they were necessary to ensure the survival of the EU legal system and to guarantee that EU rules are followed in all member countries.

The supremacy of EU laws

The principle of supremacy, or primacy, describes the relationship between EU law and national law.

It says that EU law should prevail if it conflicts with national law.

This ensures that EU rules are applied uniformly throughout the Union.

If national laws could contradict the EU treaties or laws passed by the EU institutions, there wouldn’t be this single set of rules in all member countries.

The UK has accepted the supremacy of EU law for some time

Other member countries have been more reluctant to accept the supremacy of EU law than the United Kingdom.

The European Communities Act, passed by Parliament in 1972** , accepted the supremacy of EU law. That principle has also been endorsed by the UK courts.

Although a more recent law included some restrictions on the application of the supremacy principle in the UK, the principle itself was not challenged.

Given the doctrine of Parliamentary sovereignty in the UK, meaning that there are no limits on what Acts can be passed or removed, it might be possible for Parliament to contradict EU laws. But this would seem incompatible with continued membership of the EU.

EU laws have direct effect

Direct effect refers to the rights—like free movement, non-discrimination, etc—that people and companies can claim under EU law.

It says that people can use clear and precise EU laws in court against governments, or private parties, when they’re in breach of EU law.

Down to details: EU regulations and directives

‘Regulations’ and ‘directives’ occupy a central position in the system of EU rules. The important ones are usually agreed by government representatives on the EU’s Council, as well as by the directly elected European Parliament.

Regulations and directives are legally binding. They normally apply in all 28 EU member countries, although some directives are addressed to particular members.

And both types of law are based on articles of the EU treaties that give the EU institutions the authority to pass laws in the relevant field.

For example, the Working Time Directive invokes the treaty article giving the EU power to pass laws on working conditions.

But there are important differences between regulations and directives.

Regulations become part of national law as soon as they’re passed. EU countries must pass their own laws to put directives into practice.

That’s because directives set out an objective and give EU states the choice of how to achieve it.

** Edward Heath took the UK in because "he" thought its was best..... the Country was not asked.

A proper Labour MP Peter Shore in 1975 https://youtu.be/ZoO6146qM5g in the Oxford Union Debate. (Probably considered a fascist by some today!?) You will recognise everything he says then... today. He knew exactly what was going to happen.

I see you have a lot of spare time in your day.

Briefly, all the time that we were in the EEC/EU all our laws were made at Westminster. If our politicians agreed with the legislation that is.

If something was unpopular they simply blamed Europe.

If our politicians did not agree they opted out. For example, the Shengen and the Euro.

When they really did not agree with something they didn't do it. The classic example being air quality. Europe has for many years directed the UK to clean up our air. We have repeatedly fought this in the courts.

Kids in our cities a being dosed with heavy metals and tens of thousands of Britons die before their time every year:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...-a3663371.html

The "Evil Overlords" of the EU don't seem to be able to stop the Westminster government being complicit in the deaths of so many British people, and you voted to give all power to Westminster, and think you are some sort of patriot?

Why do you think Ted Heath took us into the EEC? We only managed to get in at our third attempt, and cut and ran from the purely trade organisation EFTA in order to do so. No matter what is today claimed, we knew about "ever closer union" at some vague date in the future

The reason that there was a landslide victory for remain in the 1975 referendum was because the people with direct experience of the death and destruction in WW2, and even WW1, were still around and voted for peace. They had also seen the Empire go, and knew we, on our own, could not compete in world markets.

My grandmother told me as much, and she said she voted so that I would never fight in a war in Europe, and neither have i.

My grandma had four brothers in the forces in WW1, One was killed in action and two were wounded. The only one to escape the war unharmed was the one in the Royal Navy, aho spent the war waiting for the German High Sea's Fleet to come out and fight.

Just after the war she married my grandfather, who had also been wounded in WW1, Their two sons, my uncles, were wounded in WW2.

I voted to stay in Europe in both referenda, and I will be voting Remain in the next referendum or voting for a party that supports Remain in the general election. It will be one or other, if not both, as Brexit will never get voted through parliament.

[High Wood]

I am getting very bored with this thread now as trying to reason with a remainer is like banging one's head against a brick wall. I will respond to the bizarre statements that you have made in your last post but that is it.

Originally Posted by BWEF

I have said above that many of my friends and family voted for Brexit, However, I would not class them as "jack booted fascists". I would class them as misled or delusional.

I am neither misled or delusional but, as I doubt that you are a qualified psychiatrist, your opinion of my sanity is of no interest to me. If, I was daft enough to believe anything that I saw on the side of a bus, I would still be drinking Double Diamond and eating Findus Crispy Pancakes.


Even my cousin who has as good as signed her own death warrant in the event of a no deal Brexit.

Not sure what this means but it does sound a tad dramatic.


You people have quoted Communists and neo Nazis and are now starting to call the Prime Minister a traitor.

I am not sure who 'you people' are but I have spoken only for myself. I have neither quoted communists nor neo Nazis. I have quoted Joe Strummer, John Lennon, Joseph Goebbels and Jean Claude Juncker, none of whom are communists or neo Nazis, but, as I have never met any of them, you will have to take my word for it. I have called no one a traitor.


The simple fact is that Brexit can not be done without wrecking our economy, no matter what you voted for. I would have thought that the chaos in Parliament would have been ample proof of this.

I refer you to the J.G. quote mentioned earlier. The constant repetition of your 'wrecking the economy' statement does not make it true. The economy has already been wrecked, trillions in debt, billions of bank notes printed, ten years of austerity and debt levels now as high as before the last financial crash and interest rates at an all time low. A complete zombie economy. What is there left to wreck?


I do realise that this forum is in many ways a bubble.If anybody has had "British Exceptionalism" drilled into them, no pun intended, it is servicemen.

However, in the world of today, in pure economic terms, we can not afford to
stand alone. The Empire has gone. The Old Dominions are going with the EU, and if you think places like India will be coming to our aid you are just plain wrong.

I am well aware of history and our place in the world. It has never occurred to me that India or anyone else would come to our aid and I wouldn't expect them to.

Actually I agree with you when you wish a plague on both the far left and the far right. But then again, I am not the one circulating far right videos.

And neither am I, but I am not sure that any speech by an elected politician, recorded in the current German parliament can be classified as Far Right. On the other hand, so much of what used to be regarded as 'Common sense' is now regarded as political extremism in our topsy turvy world. As Alice said, 'words can mean whatever we want them to mean.

I would respectfully suggest that you take some time to reflect on the fact that other people have different opinions to yourself. That doesn't make them right or wrong, good or bad, just different. If you want to change people's opinions, try using logic, tact and respect rather than sweeping generalisations, name calling and vitriol. You will catch more butterflies using honey than you will with vinegar.

[NEMO]

Gents this is all getting a bit boring now , can we get back to talking about badges please - even European ones ....?

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

Confused?

Conflicted?

Complicated?

No Phil, more like proud, patriotic and British to the core. Roll on Brexit.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Hoot

No Phil, more like proud, patriotic and British to the core. Roll on Brexit.

Harder and faster ..... I have a horrible feeling we are going to get swindled at the last minute ...and that will, for want of a better word, "upset" the majority. Remainers run through the heart of Government and they will do their utmost to F**K it up if they can not have their way..... the evidence is already there before us.

[Phil2M]

Originally Posted by Hoot

No Phil, more like proud, patriotic and British to the core. Roll on Brexit.

I was just messing/joking. I forgot the emoticons.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

I was just messing/joking. I forgot the emoticons.

I'd figured that out Phil.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Harder and faster ..... I have a horrible feeling we are going to get swindled at the last minute ...and that will, for want of a better word, "upset" the majority. Remainers run through the heart of Government and they will do their utmost to F**K it up if they can not have their way..... the evidence is already there before us.

I have every confidence that 17.4 million voters won't allow that to happen.

[grenadierguardsman]

Why any Brit is happy with the EU having so much power over the British Isles, amazes me. If you don't have any pride or confidence in Britain, go and live somewhere else. Where you think you might be happier. All i keep hearing is remainers whinge like ****. We voted ( the people ) and vote leave won. Get over it. Back Britain or go somewhere else, simple. Bad losers, ungentlemanly whingers. Me myself and i.
Andy

It was a bad idea allowing this thread. IMHO

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Why any Brit is happy with the EU having so much power over the British Isles, amazes me. If you don't have any pride or confidence in Britain, go and live somewhere else. Where you think you might be happier. All i keep hearing is remainers whinge like ****. We voted ( the people ) and vote leave won. Get over it. Back Britain or go somewhere else, simple. Bad losers, ungentlemanly whingers. Me myself and i.
Andy

It was a bad idea allowing this thread. IMHO

Nah... we haven't had a good playground punch-up for ages, Andy.

Bundle! Bundle! Bundle!

[grenadierguardsman]

Andy

[Lancer 17]

Hi Griff & Andy

You have both said what I think and Im an Aussie, why the hell you would want to be over governed by Europe defeats me. As I remember it you fought 2 wars to avoid that.

Good on ya kick em out, thank God you lot kept the Pound even if it does cost me money when Im buying in the UK.

Have a decent party when it finally goes through.

Merry Christmas

Phil.
Down Under.

[BWEF]

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