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  #1  
Old 02-02-13, 04:50 PM
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Default 2WW RCAF gals?

The photo is advertised as a group of RCAF girls, 2WW - but not 100% certain on this as they do not have CANADA on their shoulder titles.

I dont collect RCAF so don't really know - are these gals RCAF?

RCN Bryan
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Old 02-02-13, 06:54 PM
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Hi Bryan, I'D say WD/RAF but they still could be Canadians and wearing the early pattern of caps and shoulder badges.I have included a link to a ww2 WD/RCAF photograph.
Jo

http://historyoflight.files.wordpres...-division2.jpg
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Old 02-02-13, 07:51 PM
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Thanks Jo,

I was unsure of what to refer to the RCAF gals -
forgot they are /were WD's - 'gals' I dont think a good description- too sexist in this day- probably get me in trouble!

Now in the photo you show they are wearing CANADA above the eagle, was there a time (earlier in the war) when they did not?

I know in the early part of the war the RCN guys did not always wear the Canada shoulder titles. Perhap RCAF same????s

The photo I show does not appear to have CANADA above the eagle, so perhaps RAF?

RCN Bryan
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Old 02-02-13, 08:36 PM
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Obviously without titles I'd say RAF, but what does the cypher in the hat badge say? I can't make it out on my monitor
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Old 02-02-13, 09:24 PM
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I cannot make out the cap badges clearly Mike,

RCN Bryan
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Old 02-02-13, 09:56 PM
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They are WAAFs (RAF). The Canada title was worn overseas only and few WDs served overseas. Brit pattern shoulder eagles, but the giveaway is the caps. WAAF used patent peaks, WDs used cloth.
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Old 02-02-13, 10:48 PM
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Some more informations on this subject Bryan.
Jo
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...oviqqavs023t31

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...oviqqavs023t31
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Old 02-02-13, 11:20 PM
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Thanks mates, appreciate your responses & links.

I have seen the photo below taken in July '43, why is the WD gal not wearing Canada flashes?

The WRCN is wearing the 1st type WRCNS flashes that were later replaced by CANADA flashes.
& the CWAC is wearing CANADA also - so why not the RCAF(WD)??

RCN Bryan
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Old 03-02-13, 08:09 AM
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RCN, as mentioned the Canada flashes were only worn when serving overseas (which I think then included Newfoundland). Returning to Canada the flashes could be retained almost as an honour to show overseas service. The photo is a publicity shot, and could show two girls who had been abroad or were about to go, the WD not.

Incidentally, the WD in the second picture is wearing the new style cap, which was rigid and angled forwards. Unlike the first pattern, it was the same design for both officers and other ranks, save the badge.
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Old 03-02-13, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS1 View Post
RCN, as mentioned the Canada flashes were only worn when serving overseas (which I think then included Newfoundland).
Yes Canada considered Newfoundland to be overseas service & the overseas clasp to the CVS medal was earned for service in NFLD & the oceans surrounding her.

The RCN Officer's medal grouping shown below had service in NFLD waters but not enough to qualify for 39-45 star

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Old 03-02-13, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS1 View Post
.

Incidentally, the WD in the second picture is wearing the new style cap, which was rigid and angled forwards. Unlike the first pattern, it was the same design for both officers and other ranks, save the badge.

Thanks for response SAS

RCN Bryan
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Old 04-02-13, 04:49 PM
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A brief summary of the nationality title routine orders for the Canadian army and the CWAC.

Here are the orders regarding the wearing of Canada nationality titles for the Canadian Army. These are summarized for the Canadian army and the Canadian Women’s Army Corps and do not cover the RCAF or the RCN. RO 1415 approved the wearing of the nationality title by all active service personnel, and subsequent orders authorized further personnel to wear "CANADA" titles.(Excerpted from my research.)

RO 1415 (November 1941): Badges “CANADA” Wearing By Officers and Other Ranks.(Emphasis added.)
1. Authority is granted for all personnel of the Canadian Army who have voluntarily enlisted for General Service to wear the CANADA badge, both in Canada and overseas.
2. The badge to be worn as follows:
Officers.
With service dress and khaki drill jackets: In brass the word “CANADA” in 3/8th inch letters...
With Battledress: Badges, arm, embroidered “Canada” in worsted embroidery, as issued to other ranks, worn on both sleeves of the battle dress blouse, 1-1/2 inches below the shoulder seam.
With greatcoats: As for battle dress blouse.
Other Ranks.
With service dress and khaki drill: On both sleeves of the jacket 1-1/2 inches below the shoulder seam.
With battle dress: On both sleeves of the battle dress blouse 1-1/2 inches below the shoulder seam.
With greatcoat: As for battle dress.
The pattern to be as issued by Ordnance and scales of issue to be amended accordingly.

Routine Order 2680 (effective December 3, 1942)(emphasis added):

Authority is granted for all personnel of the Canadian Army (Active and Reserve) to wear the Canada badge both in Canada and elsewhere.

The Canadian Women’s Army Corps had an abbreviated title reading “C.W.A.C.” approved in early 1943. As the title did not clearly indicate the nationality and some members of the corps were to serve overseas, a unique nationality title was approved. “CANADA” in gold on beech brown, arched up, was to be worn at the top of the sleeve on C.W.A.C. tunics, while the corps title was to be worn at the base of the shoulder strap. With the adoption of the C.W.A.C. nationality title the entire army was provided with titles that clearly identified the personnel as Canadian.

1. Routine Order 1415, November 1, 1941.
2. Routine Order 2680, December 1942.
3. Young J.V. MGO, Memorandum, Army Council C.W.A.C. uniform shoulder badges. January 7, 1943. LAC RG 24 Vol. 12254. File HQ 54-27-111-33 Vol. 1. , Extract from the Record of Discussions of Military Members of Army Council January 27, 1943. LAC RG 24, Vol. 12254, File HQ 54-27-11-33, and Routine Order 2912 February 20, 1943. Confusion about where the C.WA.C. embroidered titles were to be worn resulted in Routine Order 3290 Para 2 which restated embroidered corps titles were to be worn at the base of the shoulder straps, not on the sleeves. Only the CWAC pattern "CANADA" was to be worn on the sleeves.
© B.Alexander 2013.
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