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  #16  
Old 25-02-21, 02:57 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
I discounted the propeller as he's ASC and I could'nt keep coming up with a list of maybe- so he's RFC?
You're right in that he was in the Army Service Core. 32nd Division.

Not RFC I'm afraid so they're likely not propellers.

I posted some other photos - should be up shortly...
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  #17  
Old 25-02-21, 02:59 PM
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Extra Photos
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File Type: jpeg Tom_Badge_2.jpeg (57.9 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpeg Tom_Badge_3.jpeg (40.9 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpeg Tom_Badge_4.jpeg (44.3 KB, 32 views)
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  #18  
Old 25-02-21, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Looks like 4 bladed propeller for the RFC/RAF
Wasn't the 4 bladed propeller the insignia of Sergeants and Flight Sergeants ?

The photo shows two chevrons so wouldn't that rank wear the double bladed propeller ?


.
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File Type: jpg RFC.jpg (66.7 KB, 38 views)
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Last edited by mike_vee; 25-02-21 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Added photo
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  #19  
Old 10-04-21, 02:41 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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Just wanted to follow up on this and let you know that the trade badge is in fact for the Butcher's Guild.
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File Type: jpg Butcher's Guild.jpg (15.0 KB, 18 views)
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  #20  
Old 10-04-21, 03:12 PM
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Default Trade badge

So was your Grandfather a butcher by trade?

Rob
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  #21  
Old 10-04-21, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRho2000 View Post
Just wanted to follow up on this and let you know that the trade badge is in fact for the Butcher's Guild.
Hello,

Military personnel didnt wear civilian 'trade badges'.

Its not a butchery badge, the army didnt have a specific trade badge for that.

Its one of the various crossed badges worn, Rifles, Artillery Guns, Swords, Flags etc, but the photographic process and angles of folds has distorted it.

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  #22  
Old 10-04-21, 03:28 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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With the greatest of respect the angles have not distorted it. This is the comment from the expert my brother and I have been in touch with who works on WW1 records:

"Very interesting and not a badge I've ever seen before. It most strongly resembles a crossed meat cleaver and filleting knife which would be entirely appropriate for an ASC butcher.
WW1 was a time when a number of irregular and unapproved badges crept in, not least because they were made commercially available. Sometimes such badges became approved subsequently, often in the 1920's, but this one is extraordinary I think."

I always knew my grandfather was a butcher after the war, but not that this was his role in the Army Service Core.

Jonathan
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  #23  
Old 10-04-21, 03:41 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
So was your Grandfather a butcher by trade?

Rob
Hi Rob,

I always knew my grandfather was a butcher after the war, but not that this was his role in the Army Service Core. As seems to be the case!

Thanks,

Jonathan
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  #24  
Old 10-04-21, 03:42 PM
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......."WW1 was a time when a number of irregular and unapproved badges crept in, not least because they were made commercially available. Sometimes such badges became approved subsequently, often in the 1920's, but this one is extraordinary I think."

Could you ask your expert for his sources for this information please?
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  #25  
Old 10-04-21, 03:46 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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Yup - let me find out...
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  #26  
Old 10-04-21, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRho2000 View Post
Just wanted to follow up on this and let you know that the trade badge is in fact for the Butcher's Guild.
The "Butcher's Guild" badge you show is the logo of an American trade organization for butchers that was set up in 2011.

Quote:
strongly resembles a crossed meat cleaver and filleting knife
The arms of the Worshipful Company of Butchers at the time of WW1 were very different.

I'm still of the opinion that the badge is the crossed flags with one flag being 'hidden' by a fold in the uniform sleeve.
Attached Images
File Type: png Butcher's Guild.png (61.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Company of Butchers.jpg (51.2 KB, 9 views)
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  #27  
Old 10-04-21, 06:47 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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The image was one I was sent to show the similarity of cleaver and knife. But thanks for pointing out where it actually came from.

The chap that's been helping us is a retired WW1 researcher from The National Archives, UK. His 'source' for the information about unapproved badges (as I quoted him earlier today) is - well - himself. This research was his life's work and he has been incredibly helpful and insightful.

I really do appreciate though, that here I am just posting a few images of my Grandfather's trade badge with no other context. Mark (our retired researcher) has had stories, further images, hand written postcards, medal indexes, enlisting dates and discharge dates of Tom Strutt (my Grandfather) and his peers.

What ties up from all the info that Mark has had access to - is that Tom and his peers were all in the Army Service Core, most of them, including Tom were enlisted on 28th Dec 1914 with a record range from S4/039700 to S4/039899. All these men went in on Short Service attestations and all were bakers, butchers or clerks.

He found a Dan Sinclair, out the same day as Tom Strutt. 4 Company 32 Divisional Train. Dan was also a Corporal - and also a butcher. You'll see him on an image I have attached here, with the handwritten names on the reverse.

I've attached a few more images to give a broader context of the ASC group that we are talking about. Make of them what you will. They're lovely interesting pictures anyway!

I would like to thank anyone who has looked at these images and given their opinion. I am no expert, but have been grateful for the help of one - who has shone a light on my Grandfather's role within the ASC and experience in WW1. I merely wanted to come back to this post that I initiated some weeks ago, about a mystery Trade Badge, in order to share what I had learnt - with you.

That's all. To share knowledge.

Best wishes,

Jonathan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WW1 B.jpg (91.1 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg WW1 A.jpg (89.0 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg WW1 Ab.jpg (84.3 KB, 20 views)
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  #28  
Old 10-04-21, 06:57 PM
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Personally I wouldn't be content with that explanation re. the badge but if you're happy with it then so be it.
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  #29  
Old 10-04-21, 06:58 PM
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Also having now seen the full picture of the original in the opening post he wears a bandolier which in general were worn by mounted soldiers just as a bit of information.

Gerard
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  #30  
Old 10-04-21, 07:04 PM
JRho2000 JRho2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Personally I wouldn't be content with that explanation re. the badge but if you're happy with it then so be it.
Fair enough. It fits with so much of the surrounding context though. If I happen upon more evidence then I'll be sure to post.

Thank you, though.

JR
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