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  #16  
Old 20-02-12, 06:02 PM
ncc ncc is offline
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don't think it would be hallmarked,its an or's plate.
Bob
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  #17  
Old 20-02-12, 07:17 PM
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Hi John,

More than of interest - a little treasure document - many thanks for sharing it presume is for Leicesterhire VB badges - can see collars, glengarry, helmet plate and waist belt clasp but would like to know what the details are at the top, cheers Dean.
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  #18  
Old 20-02-12, 07:42 PM
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'Ticker' Riley 'Ticker' Riley is offline
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Default 1st Vol. Battn Leicesters Badges

It is indeed good to be able to see all these great Leicestershire Regiment badges, and I have to admit to being a little envious, particularly of cpgriff’s 1st Vol. Battn tiger badge as I’m still searching for a decent one of these to add to my small collection of Gaunt badges. As to the issue of the variant with the “South Africa 1900.02” top scroll, according to Ray Westlake’s The Territorial Battalions: A Pictorial History 1859-1985, p. 31, “In 1905 the battle honour ‘South Africa’, together with the years during which companies had been provided, was granted to volunteer battalions in commemoration of their services during the Boer War.”, adding that on many occasion the honour was “included in the blank spaces and empty scrolls that were a feature of the volunteers version of the regulars’ badges.” Here also is the relevant notice from The “Green Tiger.” The Records of the Leicestershire Regiment, March 1st, 1905, Vol. I No. 4, p. 5 Col. B., confirming the granting of the honour that year:


This would then mean that these tiger badges with the South Africa honour would have been produced, and presumably worn, between 1905 and 1908, after which the 1st Volunteer Battalion of course became the 4th and 5th Territorial Battalions of the Leicestershire Regiment. I also know that the regulars’ tiger cap badges design dates from 1897, the sealed pattern being dated 15 June 1897, though I don’t know when the Volunteer Battalion adopted this and hadn’t realised that the three lions badge was supposed to date from 1895-1902.

As Dave points out the ones with the South Africa honour are usually die-cast with blades, at least so far I have only seen them like this, whereas those with “1st Vol. Battn” on the top title are die-struck and with loops (lugs). The natural assumption would then be that the die-cast bladed ones are officers’ badges, but surely you would also expect to see die-struck looped ORs ones with the South Africa honour – wouldn’t you? Does anyone have any experience with volunteer battalion badges in other regiments and the use of a South Africa scroll? I’m just wondering why there doesn’t appear to be any die-struck ORs badges with the South Africa honour to the 1st Volunteer Battalion of the Leicesters, or any die-cast officers’ badges without it and with just “1st Vol. Battn” on the top title? Maybe they do exist and I just haven’t seen any, so if anyone knows about this please post things up!

As to ST’s comments on hallmarked silver badges, it is very interesting to know that they do exist - even if I’m unlikely to ever see one! So far I haven’t personally seen any 1st Vol. Battalion badges that were hallmarked, but I do have one in my Gaunt album that’s stamped “silver”. I believe Bosley’s did sell a silver Territorial Battalions officer’s badge with “sterling” stamped on it a couple of years ago, though haven’t yet managed to find one of these myself. Really interesting to see your posting about the 1st Volunteer Battalion’s badges John, as Dean says a “little treasure”, and like the other members, I’d be glad to know more about this please??

Regards

Martin
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Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

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  #19  
Old 02-03-12, 04:41 PM
Silver Tourist Silver Tourist is offline
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Default 1st. VB The Leicestershire Regt. Hallmarked Silver Helmet Plate

Good afternoon gentlemen.

Just a little something for the weekend!

Hallmarked Birmingham 1884-5. Maker: Bent & Parker.


Enjoy.
ST.
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  #20  
Old 02-03-12, 08:01 PM
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very nice,probably sold w&w 1982 for Ł200.i wondered when it would surface again.
Bob
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  #21  
Old 02-03-12, 09:50 PM
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Wow what a wonderful HP and terrific series of posts that I shall be reading all day as plenty to get your teeth into, very appreciative and ST you have blown me away!

It is a nice weekend!

Cheers Dean.
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  #22  
Old 02-03-12, 10:22 PM
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I wish ST would show off his Leics Yeo silver.......
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  #23  
Old 03-03-12, 01:36 AM
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Default 1st. VB The Leicestershire Regt. Hallmarked Silver Helmet Plate

Good morning.

Re. The Leics. Yeo. items:........ we shall have to see.

Thank you Dean for your most generous remarks. One does try to help and inform other collectors, and I am pleased you found the illustration of interest.

Now, here is a slightly interesting question: from a remark made to me by the late Mr Carmen I believe there are a number of other hallmarked helmet plates out there. So, has any member an example in their collection?

Would any member like to speculate upon which Regiments might have been inclined to commission such items?

Enjoy.
ST.
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  #24  
Old 03-03-12, 08:47 AM
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I would like to think that the PAO Leicestershire Yeomanry Cavalry Bell top shako plates might have been done in silver? I know that the Officers had a bi-metal version (appears to be)...... there is one at the Leicester Museum in New walks. This was owned by Col Legh-Keck......



There are two types..... one with QVC - Light Dragoon Helmet - (see above) and one without - Bell top shako - (see below)... this has a black enamel centre to high light the "LYC".
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  #25  
Old 03-03-12, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
It is indeed good to be able to see all these great Leicestershire Regiment badges, and I have to admit to being a little envious, particularly of cpgriff’s 1st Vol. Battn tiger badge as I’m still searching for a decent one of these to add to my small collection of Gaunt badges. As to the issue of the variant with the “South Africa 1900.02” top scroll, according to Ray Westlake’s The Territorial Battalions: A Pictorial History 1859-1985, p. 31, “In 1905 the battle honour ‘South Africa’, together with the years during which companies had been provided, was granted to volunteer battalions in commemoration of their services during the Boer War.”, adding that on many occasion the honour was “included in the blank spaces and empty scrolls that were a feature of the volunteers version of the regulars’ badges.” Here also is the relevant notice from The “Green Tiger.” The Records of the Leicestershire Regiment, March 1st, 1905, Vol. I No. 4, p. 5 Col. B., confirming the granting of the honour that year:


This would then mean that these tiger badges with the South Africa honour would have been produced, and presumably worn, between 1905 and 1908, after which the 1st Volunteer Battalion of course became the 4th and 5th Territorial Battalions of the Leicestershire Regiment. I also know that the regulars’ tiger cap badges design dates from 1897, the sealed pattern being dated 15 June 1897, though I don’t know when the Volunteer Battalion adopted this and hadn’t realised that the three lions badge was supposed to date from 1895-1902.

As Dave points out the ones with the South Africa honour are usually die-cast with blades, at least so far I have only seen them like this, whereas those with “1st Vol. Battn” on the top title are die-struck and with loops (lugs). The natural assumption would then be that the die-cast bladed ones are officers’ badges, but surely you would also expect to see die-struck looped ORs ones with the South Africa honour – wouldn’t you? Does anyone have any experience with volunteer battalion badges in other regiments and the use of a South Africa scroll? I’m just wondering why there doesn’t appear to be any die-struck ORs badges with the South Africa honour to the 1st Volunteer Battalion of the Leicesters, or any die-cast officers’ badges without it and with just “1st Vol. Battn” on the top title? Maybe they do exist and I just haven’t seen any, so if anyone knows about this please post things up!

As to ST’s comments on hallmarked silver badges, it is very interesting to know that they do exist - even if I’m unlikely to ever see one! So far I haven’t personally seen any 1st Vol. Battalion badges that were hallmarked, but I do have one in my Gaunt album that’s stamped “silver”. I believe Bosley’s did sell a silver Territorial Battalions officer’s badge with “sterling” stamped on it a couple of years ago, though haven’t yet managed to find one of these myself. Really interesting to see your posting about the 1st Volunteer Battalion’s badges John, as Dean says a “little treasure”, and like the other members, I’d be glad to know more about this please??

Regards

Martin
Martin,

I don't ordinarily collect buttons but the attached picture of an other ranks' button would indicate that there should be a looped example of the Leicester's VB with the South Africa scroll above.

ST - thanks for sharing the picture of the helmet plate, it really is a cracker!

Griff
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File Type: jpg P1050234 (800x600).jpg (48.5 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg P1050232 (800x600).jpg (49.9 KB, 10 views)
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  #26  
Old 03-03-12, 11:52 AM
ncc ncc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Tourist View Post
Good morning.

Re. The Leics. Yeo. items:........ we shall have to see.

Thank you Dean for your most generous remarks. One does try to help and inform other collectors, and I am pleased you found the illustration of interest.

Now, here is a slightly interesting question: from a remark made to me by the late Mr Carmen I believe there are a number of other hallmarked helmet plates out there. So, has any member an example in their collection?

Would any member like to speculate upon which Regiments might have been inclined to commission such items?

Enjoy.
ST.
i could be wrong,but i always thought officers purchased there own kit and would buy according to what they could afford ie silver plate or silver.
yes there are other hm silver leicestershire volunteer helmet plates in existance.
Bob
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  #27  
Old 03-03-12, 09:13 PM
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Interesting question as to HMSS HP's you have posed ST and like Bob I thought it would have been open to the taste and budget of each Officer. The Scottish regiments certainly seem to have a higher proportion of badges that are in glengarry style and so would have thought these were a prime candidate.

Love to think that the Durham's would be and Lincoln's but have not seen an Officer's cap star badge in HMSS let alone HP.

Regards Dean.
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  #28  
Old 04-03-12, 12:28 AM
Silver Tourist Silver Tourist is offline
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Default 1st. VB The Leicestershire Regt. Hallmarked Silver Helmet Plate

Good evening Dean.

To paraphrase the words of Marvin The Paranoid Android......you`re missing something fundamental in the relationship between men.........................and helmet plates!

One must ask oneself the question: who would have the funds available to commission such an item? And, who would be inclined to make such ostentatious displays of wealth. Remember, this is Victorian England. It is the height of the Industrial Revolution. One must follow the money, and find where it leads? There was, without doubt, considerable wealth in the north-east in the late 19th.C. However, during the period, there were other areas of the country with far greater wealth. Let`s see what members flush out: so far no-one is adding any more pictures of hallmarked silver HPs.

And, you mention glengarry badges. There is of course the commonly encountered hallmarked example to the Rifle Brigade (KK 588). However, there are at least two other hallmarked PT glengarry patterns, KK 473 and KK548.


Enjoy.

S.T.
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  #29  
Old 04-03-12, 01:25 PM
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John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooke07 View Post
Hi John,

More than of interest - a little treasure document - many thanks for sharing it presume is for Leicesterhire VB badges - can see collars, glengarry, helmet plate and waist belt clasp but would like to know what the details are at the top, cheers Dean.
Dean

unfortunately I goofed with this image, it was the first one I tried editing with some new software and I inadvertently reduced the image size so much that I lost resolution. I had already deleted it from my camera and it was on an external hard drive with no restore version available. I had renamed it before I realized it and could not undo the modification.

I cannot make out the maker (which is what the top left stamp is) .

sorry
John
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  #30  
Old 04-03-12, 10:45 PM
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These things happen John, no worries - where did you see the image to copy?

ST - you pose quite a challenge Victorian England was awash with wealth amongst the merchants, bankers and landed gentry who may have been more asset rich than cash. I think the flamboyance of VB uniforms would have led to hallmarked silver HP's to more tha a few Officer's.

Lord Derby with hallmarked cap badges to Liverpool Pals and then there are those to the 11th Border so this might infer that there are hallmarked HP's to units they were associated with per chance. London regiments or any associated with the crown by way of Royal Honorary Colonel the Prince of Wales?

Will think on, cheers Dean.
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