British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Cavalry, Yeomanry, Tank/RAC Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 20-03-09, 07:10 PM
Viletone's Avatar
Viletone Viletone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 203
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
IMO the one shown in the 1st post is a copy!! and at a crazy price! J-F's badge looks fine to me despite being a 2-part construction!

IMO
A copy of what? Restrike or repro and why is one two part badge better than the other? I've stated what I'd prefer (Joachim's for the record).
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 20-03-09, 07:18 PM
Malcolm Davey's Avatar
Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davec2 View Post
Has no-one got anything to say about the different style of the badges, or are there two variants ??

Dave.
I think you said it all Dave,the first badge is a made up badge which i also think may have been treated with chemicals looking at he slider.
The badge is the same style as the fake 3rd Dragoon Guards Badges that you see being sold as genuine.

Malc
__________________
http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/



Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 20-03-09, 07:22 PM
davec2's Avatar
davec2 davec2 is offline
Member 2008-16- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tamworth, Staffs.
Posts: 3,519
Default 10th Hussars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viletone View Post
A copy of what? Restrike or repro and why is one two part badge better than the other? I've stated what I'd prefer (Joachim's for the record).

Hello my friend,

I'm struggling to understand your point, at the moment you seem to find fault with everything that is being said ( and I'm still sitting on the fence ), as far as I can see, please correct me if I'm wrong, joachim asked what members thought of a badge, J.P. said it was similar to his and joachim showed us his version.

Andy liked J.P.'s, Alan liked J.P.'s but would prefer joachim's, you said that you liked Joachim's also but if my memory serves me well and it invariably doesn't, no-one has said specifically what they thought of the first badge in this sequence of views, apart from me.

Have I missed a page or are we all in agreement that the only duff badge is the one shown first by joachim ??

All the best.

Dave.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 20-03-09, 07:30 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Porthcawl, South Wales
Posts: 7,658
Default

I'm not sure what Vile Tone's point is either?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 20-03-09, 08:52 PM
Viletone's Avatar
Viletone Viletone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 203
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
I'm not sure what Vile Tone's point is either?
OK, it's quite simple. Rather than beating about the bush to ask other people's opinions before expressing their own, wouldn't it have been better to have posted the one piece badge alongside the one in question clearly stating something along the lines of "this is what I think an true economy 10th Hussars ought to look like" or words to that effect?

I've clearly explained my stance, yes I'd prefer a one piece too but what no-one else has clearly stated is why they think the originally posted badge is inferior to JP's other than some differences in appearance.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 20-03-09, 09:20 PM
davec2's Avatar
davec2 davec2 is offline
Member 2008-16- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tamworth, Staffs.
Posts: 3,519
Default 10th Hussars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viletone View Post
OK, it's quite simple. Rather than beating about the bush to ask other people's opinions before expressing their own, wouldn't it have been better to have posted the one piece badge alongside the one in question clearly stating something along the lines of "this is what I think an true economy 10th Hussars ought to look like" or words to that effect?

I've clearly explained my stance, yes I'd prefer a one piece too but what no-one else has clearly stated is why they think the originally posted badge is inferior to JP's other than some differences in appearance.
Hello again Viletone,

I was just about to leave this infernal machine for a couple of hours but I spotted your response.

I can see, to a degree, why a comparison in two different badges up front, would suit some people, I find it hard to believe that you can dismiss the differences between the first badge and the other two as " some differences " it is totally spurious, IMO but I'm struggling to understand why you keep banging on about J.P.s badge as though someone has maligned it, I cannot remember anyone having a problem with his badge.

Again, if my memory serves me correctly, a couple of opinions have been stated that joachims variant is preferred, no one apart from yourself has mentioned J.P.'s apart from remarking that it has tabs and again, if my memory serves me well, that has never been an issue in this debate, can I ask, are you related to J.P. perhaps, you do seem to be going over the top in his defence, particularly when no-one has actually attacked him or indeed, his badge.

I am now totally confused with your stance, I'm sure I've missed something here ??

All the best.

Dave.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 20-03-09, 09:57 PM
Viletone's Avatar
Viletone Viletone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 203
Default

Dave,

Please re-read the posts before you comment. I'm not attacking or defending anyone here and I'm definently not related to either JP, Joachim, Uncle Tom Cobbley or anyone else on this forum as far as I'm aware.

Believe me, I enjoy this sort of debate and before I get accused of trolling which I'm sure I will sooner or later and no doubt the inevitable ban for being a trouble maker, lets look at things in perspective.

POW badges are common, both as collars and cap badges so many different dies exist. Prior to WW1 dies existed for this badge for the feathers - probably used for collars for countless other regiments and cap badges for others - a scroll and finally a crown for the overlay. WW1 ACD regulations stipulted that bimetal badges are to be made in a single metal but correct me if I'm wrong it doesn't say that they have to be as a single stamp. Obviously one company has produced a die to do that (Joachim's) but others have used their existing dies as the same stamp can be used for both g/m and nickel. Economies are supposed to be labour rather than metal saving and applying only a scroll and slider is less intensive than a slider, scroll and crown so a saving is made even here. After all, everyone seems to agree JP's two part badge is fine I'm supported on this point am I not?

So what's the problem? I've said I prefer Joachim's if it were down to me while pretty much everyones like's JP's. So what's wrong with the original badge apart from a few variations between it and JP's How many companies made POW badges, two at least Gaunt & Firmin so why should even their's be identical.

There rests my case for defending the original badge. Now tell me why it's a repro/copy/restrike (of what?) rather than asking what my problem is.

Last edited by Alan O; 21-08-09 at 03:59 PM. Reason: remove unnecessary quotation
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 20-03-09, 10:41 PM
dragonz18's Avatar
dragonz18 dragonz18 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pukekohe , New Zealand
Posts: 532
Default

Hi all !
(a little voice tells me I should stay clear of this)
But......IMO .....
I do'nt like the 1st badge because........
It looks compressed(?) not elegantly open shaped, like the normal BM ones. Both 10th H & 3rd DG's.
The scroll is too short for the letters,which are large & there is little room for them to be spaced out properly/proportionally.
The top solder looks too dark compared to the rest of the badge.
The bottom soldering looks too light ,by comparison to this.(should be similar ?)
The whole 'splotchyness' of the back, reeks of an attempt to artificially age it.
Would prefer a little more tapered bottom on this 'very new' looking slider.( this is more a personal preference.)
I could probably find more....but this is enough to put me off !!

Have no trouble with the other 2, which do not have these problems !

Cheers !
Steve

Last edited by dragonz18; 20-03-09 at 10:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 20-03-09, 10:51 PM
davec2's Avatar
davec2 davec2 is offline
Member 2008-16- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tamworth, Staffs.
Posts: 3,519
Default 10th Hussars

Hello again Viletone,

I appreciate just about everything you say in your last post and I have to admit, that I am still supposed to be sat on that splintery fence......

I'm not discounting all the variations etc nor the number of manufacurers or regiments that use the POW's feathers whether for a cap badge or a collar badge, my main reason for continuing with my replies was because and this is important, I felt that you were continually remarking about J.P.'s badge when no-one else was talking about it.

Also and again, from my point of view, is the look, for want for a better word, of the first badge, you could say that where as I thought you were going on about J.P.'s badge ( my remark about being related was totally tongue in cheek and was, I thought, supposed to be funny ), I was going on about the first badge.

Here is my point re that first badge, I am retired, through illness and I would have just about 13 months to go before I officially retire, through my age. For just about the last thirty years of my working life I was a fabricator / welder, this included, gas welding as well as electrical welding, also brazing, silver soldering and lead soldering and no, I cannot wipe a joint, that is plumbing.

If you look at where the tabs are joined to the body of the badge, you will see a pinkish colour, that is indicative of some sort of re-work being applied to that item, the badge has, IMO, been chemically cleaned, now yourself and all the other badge experts on this forum can wipe the floor with me when it comes to data about and the history of regiments and badges etc but badge repairs happen to be my hobby and you can trust me when I say that I think a badge has been messed with, it will have been.

I've even repaired two valise badges this afternoon so I do have a little bit of knowledge and incidently, just to wrap this up because after my views have been posted, I will call it a day ( there really isn't much more to say ) apart from the fact that I know the seller, at one time I was repairing badges for him, I still buy from him occasionally but very rarely.

That's it my friend, there is no more, I'm out of this one, take my word or not, it won't alter my life, IMO, it's the case, take care, all the best.

Dave.

Last edited by davec2; 20-03-09 at 11:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 21-03-09, 12:29 AM
Viletone's Avatar
Viletone Viletone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 203
Default

Dave,
I've no intentions in taking the debate any further either unless someone else wants to take it on. I wouldn't question your expertise in metalwork which is something I certainly don't have other than to say we're only looking at an image rather than the piece in hand where light from flash and scanners can play tricks.

Steve
Your points are noted and this is the kind of response the thread warranted in the first place whether pro or against the badge in question.

****************************************

It's very easy to post on here asking everyone's opinion without being up-front with one's own. If the intention was to question the original badge because it was two piece then that was blown out of the water straight away by JP's. That was the point I was trying to make all along although this was clearly misinterpreted.

Next please.

Last edited by Alan O; 21-08-09 at 03:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 21-03-09, 04:58 AM
Malcolm Davey's Avatar
Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,608
Default

Thank god we are all individuals and we all do things different from others, good luck to everyone with your future pruchases if you collect economies

Malc
__________________
http://www.watlingmilitaria.com/



Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover.

Last edited by Malcolm Davey; 21-03-09 at 05:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 21-03-09, 06:29 AM
jeanpit-frenchy's Avatar
jeanpit-frenchy jeanpit-frenchy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DUNKERQUE
Posts: 675
Default

oups......sorry gentlemen

i do not understand all (sorry my english wasn't very good) but it seem to me that my 10th badge was THE PROBLEME

it came from my grandfather (he give to me about 250 british badges, titles, collar and 50 canadian, south africa, NZ and australian). my grandfather is dead in 1981. he was very interested by British army along all is life . he had never buy a badge, and received all of them by soldiers

i dont think so, but is it not impossible that british veteran had give to him "bad" thinks after WW2...!

for me (but i wasn't a expert) all are good, but i wasn't born when he collect them....

all the best
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 21-08-09, 03:40 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

This is a fake 3rd DG which has the same one piece construction as one of the 10th hussars badges.

It comes from a fake die and there was no authorisation for 3rd DG to have an all brass badge. Only a few cavalry regts has all brass economies - the rest retained bimetal throughout the war.

Alan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3rd dg economy.jpg (10.0 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by Alan O; 21-10-16 at 01:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 29-04-10, 05:27 PM
GriffMJ's Avatar
GriffMJ GriffMJ is offline
LYPAO Boff
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Caerlŷr, yn Lloegr.
Posts: 6,445
Default WW1 Economy Cavalry badges

Gentlemen, Your thoughts on these two?




This ones loops have been nipped off?
__________________
Cofion gorau
Gruffydd M-J
www.paoyeomanry.org.uk

"A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry"
Lechyd da pob Cymro

Last edited by GriffMJ; 29-04-10 at 06:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 29-04-10, 05:38 PM
wright241's Avatar
wright241 wright241 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In Luxembourg for the last 20 years and staying. They take much better care of us here....
Posts: 2,995
Default

[QUOTE=GriffMJ;67570]Gentlemen, Your thoughts on these two?

GriffMJ,
Ref the first one. If that is the dreaded small font '...Gaunt.London' mark then its a fake.
David
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1916 all brass, economy

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:32 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.