Sheffield VDC/Gaunt Marked Puzzle

[badger123]

I've had a few Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps (SVDC) badges for a while and thanks to Paul L (OC14), I've just added to my collection another variant i.e. a pair of chromed badges.

Its interesting to ponder on the purpose of these badges, were they made for and used by the band (the SVDC had 2 battalions, a signal section, medical section, transport section and a band) or were they chromed by an enthusiastic ex soldier? (bearing in mind Sheffield was renowned for its metal processing/silversmiths).

But the real purpose of this thread is to ask about the Gaunt maker marks (all the SVDC badges I have seen are Gaunt maker marked). A few points to ponder on:

1. The Officer's bronze collar badge (top right in 1st & 2nd picture) is stamped Gaunt London.
2. The OR's cap badge (top left) has a Gaunt London tablet.
3. The OR's cap badge (bottom left) has a Gaunt 'Montreal' tablet.
4. The chromed badges have Gaunt 'Montreal' tablets.

Having had a good look at the Gaunt tablets I am now puzzled. There was some discussion a while ago about whether Gaunt Montreal marked badges were made in Canada or whether they were made in Britain and merely sold through the Montreal outlet. To me it seems implausible that a small unit in Sheffield at the height of WW1 would place an order for badges in Canada for them to be transported all the way across the Atlantic.

In addition, some tablets are marked London, others are Montreal. Is this an error in the factory or just a case of using up tablets that were available?

To confuse things further, look carefully at the tablets and you will see they say 'JR GAUNT MONTRFAL. Notice its a letter F and not a letter E. At first I thought it may be a miss stamping of the letter E but the letter is far too sharp and to my eye, its definitely a letter F.

So the real killer question is this. Is the word Montreal deliberately misspelled or a type setting error?

What do people think? Ivan

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by badger123

just a case of using up tablets that were available.

a type setting error

Or a damaged die.

Is what I think.

Rgds, Thomas.

[Cribyn]

Hello Ivan

As far as the 'J R Gaunt Montreal' mark is concerned, this mark is voften found on Canadian military buttons and appears in a number of different forms, amongst which are 'J R Gaunt & Son Ltd Montreal' and 'J R Gaunt & Son Ltd Montreal Made in England'.

It is my understanding that Gaunt only ever had an office in Canada. All buttons (and, I believe, badges) marked 'J R Gaunt Montreal' or similar were made in the UK.

Regards
Roger

[badger123]

Thomas, not sure it is a damaged die, the letter is far too perfect?

Roger, thanks for your information. From reading previous threads, I'm aware of the office in Canada just being an outlet rather than a manufacturing base. Some very interesting reading there.

My query really is why put Canadian tablets on badges made in Britain for a unit in Sheffield in Yorkshire?

Now having looked at other JR Gaunt Montreal badges in members albums, it seem that most Montreal marked badges are actually marked Montrfal with an F and not an E.

Please look and tell me I'm not imagining things!

Ivan

[Cribyn]

Hello Ivan

Looking at the images it does seem that 'Montreal' has been spelt incorrectly rather than as a result of a badly struck die.

Is it possible that a batch of these 'tablets' was produced with the incorrect spelling and were not used on Canadian badges because the obvious error might have caused offence? Rather than waste them (precious resources, war on etc!) they were used on non-Canadian badges where the error might not be so noticeable!

I guess we will never know. A spur of the moment decision taken on the shop floor perhaps! That's the problem with these decisions taken years ago and probably never recorded.

An intriguing puzzle though.

Roger

[badger123]

Roger, I agree that it is a spelling mistake rather than a worn die and yes, we can only speculate as to why these tablets were fitted to British badge.

One thing we can say for sure is that, because of the known short lifespan of this particular regiment, these tablets were in use between 1914 and 1916.

I'm posting a link to this thread on the Canadian pages to see if any of our Canadian members have any information about the misspelt Montreal tablet.

Ivan

[Alan O]

Ivan

A VTC ID may not be right as chrome plating was unheard of on WW1 era badges and was not commercially practiced until the 1920s.

http://www.pfonline.com/articles/his...romium-plating

Your badges may well be Canadian and later than WW1. Is there a Sheffield link to a Canadian place?

[oc14]

Alan
You clearly have no idea what the badges are do you? Whilst I agree that the badges may have been chromed after WW1 it doesn't alter the fact that the badges are WW1 and are Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps - this unit, in case you didn't know , was a VTC unit
PL

[badger123]

Sorry Alan, you are way off the mark with this one. The badges are most definitely a VTC unit i.e. Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps of WW1 era and specifically date from 1915 to 1916. Definitely not Canadian.

For further information there is a short publication in the Sheffield archives called Volunteer Forces in Sheffield that outlines the formation of the SVDC.

The fact that the Sheffield Defence Corps was based in a city known for its metal production and processing including various types of plating including chrome, its not beyond the realms of possibility that these may have been plated in one of Sheffield's factories or 'Little Mester' workshops. The corps consisted of men who lived and worked in Sheffield so no doubt metal plating was well within the expertise of some of the men within the corps.

Whether they were plated during WW1 or after is something we will never know but the point of my question is, why the Gaunt Montreal tablet (with misspelt Montreal) on a badge that is clearly linked to a Yorkshire town.

Ivan

[badger123]

Originally Posted by oc14

Alan
You clearly have no idea what the badges are do you? Whilst I agree that the badges may have been chromed after WW1 it doesn't alter the fact that the badges are WW1 and are Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps - this unit, in case you didn't know , was a VTC unit
PL

An informative book which includes a chapter on the formation of the Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps (including pictures of the badges they wore) is this one!

[Alan O]

The only explanation is that Gaunt's used up some name plates made for use on export badges to supply the VTC in the rush of wartime production..

[badger123]

Alan, How can you be so convinced that is the only explanation?

Agreed its a possibility that some export name plates could have been used instead of Gaunt London (but some SVDC badges also have London plates on them)?

My point still remains as a question for members who may have a definitive answer and why the misspelling of Montreal? (which seems to be more common on tablets than I first thought).

Ivan

[Alan O]

Well if you are both adamant that it is a British VTC badge, Gaunt only made badges in Bham and London factories and that it dates it c.1916 then what other explanation is there?

if they are also found with London plates then someone got the wrong ones out of the store room and used the ones made for Canadian export by mistake.

[54Bty]

Could the badges that are chromed have been done for a film company?

Marc

[badger123]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Could the badges that are chromed have been done for a film company?

Marc

Not from a film I've seen, unless you know of something similar?

I see where you're coming from but the Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps had their own band so more likely to have been chromed for that (if done during WW1) or, perhaps by a veteran who had access to chroming facilities (based on the theory that all of the SVDC members were from Sheffield and had close ties to the steel/metal industry).

All of the pictures I have or have seen of the SVDC are in black and white so its impossible to say for sure.

Ivan