Connaught RANGERS / ROYAL IRISH REGIEMNT

[Spencer]

I have always been told that the Harp strings in the CONNAUGHT RANGERS where void . Now there is some argument that they are not and most people are getting this badge mixed up with the Royal Irish Regiment .

[Luke H]

Hi Spencer,

There is a picture (in Wilkinson's book I think) of an unvoided original Connaught Rangers, but in this day and age to be sure I'd definitley go for a voided strings badge.

They are one of the scarsest infantry of the line badges going and I myself am on the look out for another example as mine has a flaw in the strings. Haven't seen a real one on ebay for many months now.

Regards

Luke

[John Mulcahy]

Spencer

I personally think that the "all solid" Rangers badge with slider is a modern fake.


Compare the genuine one below on the left to a fake on the right and note

1.First the horizontal 'line' that has been 'squeezed' on to the slider at the point where it has been bent, a good example this one, but not always present.
2.The copper 'ring' that has been brazed (Regimentally done) between the Crown and Harp in order to act as a 'strengthener'. The purpose of this was to stop the number of breakages that occurred when the cap badge was removed for cleaning; this was not a problem in QVC times due to the lugs. Sometimes it was a full circle sometimes a rough semi-circle. I have seen items where this has been attempted in order to copy it, but never looked good at all and easily spotted. The strengthener is made of copper although I have seen the odd brass one. Beware of 'silver solder!
3.The Harp strings on genuine badges should be voided (with I think one exception) follow the link below


http://www.milcol.net/forum/index.ph...6&hl=connaught

I have lately seen the Rangers badge with solid joint to the crown with voided strings with the dreaded "J R Gaunt.London" slider.

John

[jeanpit-frenchy]

from my grand father....

100% genuine WW1

[Spencer]

Well I think that has cleared that one up .
Voided strings are best .
Thanks
Spencer

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

Here is another view of a real Connaught Rangers badge, complete with its curious strands of green thread.

[John Mulcahy]

The fact that the Royal Irish has a strengthening ring indicates to me that it originally had a slider. As with the Connaught Rangers the repeated bending associated with sliders made the badge prone to breakage.

You shoud be able to readily pick up an intact one for 20 - 30 GBP . Sliders with Smith and Wright marks are good. Thus weight up the cost of repair with that cost to decide if you wish to go ahead.

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

Working through my supposed Irish badges I came across these elephants - could the one without a howdah be a Connaught Rangers collar badge?

[John Mulcahy]

Stanley

The short answer is that the right hand side is probably a Conn Rangers O/R collar, this is an old chestnut, how to tell apart the elephant collar badge of the Connaught Rangers from that of the Seaforth Highlanders...

The only good reference I have to go off of is Churchill. Reading through the book he describes different pattern numbers for the elephant designs of both Regiments (Seaforths and Connaughts), to me at least this implies that the designs were INTENDED to be regimentally specific.

However the problem for me is that as I view the images in this book I have a very hard time deciding that they are different, for instance Churchill 1682 (Seaforths) seems near identical to 1811 (Conaughts) to me , with possibly the Seaforths item having a more pronounced "bump" to the head and possibly a 'bushier" tail end. But now I believe I may be thinking too hard about all of this.

Likewise 1676 (Seaforths) is near identical to 1810 (Conaughts).

So here is what I have

a not-quite matching pair, possibly 1811 on the right possible 1676 on the left
on the left below


on the right a non-matching pair

possible 1682 on the right, possible 1810 on the left


it makes my head hurt - so I have done what I suspect some old sweats did, I have displayed the closest matching pair and they look like a set of 1810 to most eyes. I don't expect to ever be satisfied unless I can get a set off of a uniform.

So to sum up I personally would happily show your right hand one as Connaught Rangers

John

[dragonz18]

Spencer,
from memory .... the one with the 'Howdah' is Duke of Wellington's Regt.
Cheers !
Steve

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

I thought that the one with the Howdah might have been a Yorkshire Regiment collar badge - the design was used by the 76th Regiment of Foot. Perhaps some regiments used the same designs, any "differences" being introduced by different manufacturers?

The elephant without the howdah - surely it is a Seaforths - brass for ranks and white metal for musicians. Also the Seaforths comes in a number of different strikings, dependant upon the period. The argument about Connaught Rangers -v- Seaforths will go on for ever. Regards. David

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

Perhaps the answer depends on the affiliations and preferences of the collector - Scottish or Irish (unless of course the badge has a particular provenance).

[ard-ri]

My copy of Churchill and Westlake " British Army Collar Badges 1881 to the present" shows #259 as Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs, The Duke of Albany's): Gilt. This badge was worn with the number 260 below, both being placed either side of the collar with number 260 nearest the opening. It also shows #268. The Connaught Rangers: silver. The only difference I can see between the two is a slight variation in the position of the elephant trunk, a slight variation on the tail and on the Connaught badge the toe nails are more detailed. The only other visible difference is that the Seaforth badge is gilt and the Connaught badge is silver. Then again the silver Connaught could be an Officers variant. Lastly, the bottom of the Connaught badge is flat where as the Seaforth badge is more rounded. That being said, these variations may also differ with different manufacturers.

David, neither of these badges has the howdah.

Michael

[ard-ri]

Stanley,

Looking at the Churchill book, your elephant collar on the right is a Seaforth Badge. The one on the left is #209 The Duke of Wellington Regiment (West Riding): Pre 1958. Reintroduced 1969. Gilding Metal.

Michael