BOY SCOUT BADGES

[NEMO]

HI ive mooved this thread to a more correct section , just been gifted this lot of scout badges done a bit of hunting on the nett some are quite old and collectable such as ` bee keeper` the printed examples may be war time ? any help comments would be great regarding rarity .

many thanks

[NEMO]

More , picture 3 shows what I think are from the 1947 world Jamboree in France

[Wooffy]

Ok, looking at the very last photo in the second post:

2 piece metal badge on the left is a Hat Badge from the large felt, lemon squeezer hats.
The small pin underneath it is French - "Scouts De France" to be exact.
The Red Bristle Plume is for an Assistant Scout Master - it looks to have a vertical pin (and lugs North South) its early and maybe be Silver or EPNS (Should be stamped on the rear) - the other plumes should be marked similarly.
The small metal pin with the Scout Symbol on it (to the lower diagonal right of the red plume) is a post 1967 beret badge (Still in use today by Air Scouts who retain the use of the beret).
The Green Bristle Plume is for a Scout Master.
The White Plume (The Rarest of the 3 you have pictured) is for a District Senior Scout Master.
The two patches are to indicate that the wearer is a second class scout. Both slightly different era's - would need to see the backs for something more concrete for you. (A useful thing to remember is that if the badge is woven and the back of the badge is brown it is a war time issue.) Yes the printed badges (some of which I note you have) are also war time issues, issued later in the war.

[johnG]

Quite a lot to get through here, so with the great start to it made by Wooffy I will simply pick out bits and pieces as we go along.

The maroon shoulder epaulettes in the first picture: Senior Scouts were introduced in 1947 and applied to all scouts over the age of 15, or 14 if they had left school and were working. (1946 was the last year of being able to leave school at age 14. The school leaving age then went up to 15 as from 1 January 1947).

If a separate Senior Scout Troop was raised then the members wore epaulettes as pictured here, but if of age but in a troop which was open to younger members then a plain maroon epaulette was worn.

These epaulettes are now obsolete.

Edited to add: They may have been introduced in 1946. I first encountered them in 1947 when my troop adopted them - the long disbanded 4th City of London (St. Andrew Undershaft)

Regards,

John

[johnG]

Proficiency badges, 2nd picture, 2nd series:
Entertainer (But do I also remember one with TWO masks on it)
Musician
Librarian
Swimmer
(Don't remember)
Athlete
Fireman
Cook
(Can't make out the picture on this one)
Musician
Signaller.

A scout could start earning proficiency badges after attaining 'Second Class' standard, but some (myself included) preferred to press on and obtain 'First Class' standard before attempting them,

With the advent of Senior Scouts a new design of proficiency badge was introduced for them, being square badges on a maroon background. and these round badges were retained for younger scouts, but the ones depicted here appear to relate to the era prior to Senior Scouts.

In another picture I see you have the 'Ambulance Man', (Red cross on white ground) the only proficiency badge worn on both shoulders, atop all other proficiency badges, and an obligatory 'Public Service' badge counting towards King's Scout (as it was then), and the first proficiency badge I took after gaining my first class badge, in order to get it out of the way.

These proficiency badges were available on a khaki or navy blue ground, the latter for Air Scouts, or troops who wore a grey shirt instead of khaki, as was the case with City of London troops.

Regards,

John

[johnG]

4th picture. 1st series:

First Class award.
King's Scout (Now Queen's Scout of course)
Ambulance Man (The badge was worn on both shoulders)
Pioneer (Crossed pick and axe)
Camper: An early version of the badge I think, later replaced by a picture of
a cottage tent.

Ref other pictures:

As Wooffy rightly says, the two part metal badge was worn on front of the lemon squeezer hat by patrol and troop leaders. I remember seeing just the scroll worn by some assistant patrol leaders, but can't remember if this was official.

Regards,

John

[johnG]

Some interesting memento's of the Jamboree de la Paix, Paris, 1947, but sadly not an official jamboree badge included, which today would be worth several hundred pounds.

On the question of value, in an earlier post I mentioned City of London scouts, and the last time I saw one of their badges advertised was about four years ago and the asking price was £350.

I stand to be corrected, but sadly I do not see anything of any great value in the badges pictured here which are all pretty well 'run of the mill' stuff, but being genuine badges and not more recent copies will push the price up a bit, and there are a few there that bring back some personal memories - the sort of thing some collectors find worth paying a good price for, but what do I know, as apart from my early years in London,back in the 1940's, and raising the North Banbury, Oxfordshire, Venture Scouts in 1968 whilst on a visit to England, the bulk of my scouting was in Zimbabwe where to a large extent we had our own way of doing things.

Regards,

John

[Wooffy]

Also in the first picture - 2 turks head woggle knots which look to be ones issued by Gilwell Park (welll you had to buy them!) upon completion of your woodbadge training (they are the 2 on the left of the 3). The third is a copy of aforementioned woggle I think!

There are a few year stars - funnily enough - as you would expect, these were worn above the shirt pocket and a plain star indicates one year, others were issued with numbers on.

Also in the first picture, almost out of sight - is an interesting piece of leather. This was an award called the "Bushman's Thong" it came in a kit and you had to tie it yourself! (The instructions of which are in a post here).

[johnG]

Well spotted Wooffy, I was trying to figure out, unsucesfully, how that bit of leather suited a bit of the Wood Badge. I forgot all about the Bushman's Thong.

The first picture. second series:

The badge showing joined hands is for 'Interpreter' and was worn on the right sleeve. An additional badge showing the language spoken was worn over the right shirt pocket.

E.d. F: Eclaireurs de France. An inter religious scout and guide movement
of France.

Regards,

John

[Wooffy]

Rectangular badge in Post 1, image 2 (George and the Dragon) is from Denmark - and possibly so are the others in the photo - although that is a guess (they are not British)

As for prices - the printed King's Scout Badge and Proficiency badges, along with the Senior Scout District Plume (The white one) are the most valuable in my opinion. Have a look on evilbay to see some recent prices.

The other thing that is worth mentioning is that if you are going to sell them on, I know its a pain, but split up all of the cloth badges (with the exception of the shoulder boards obviously) and list them separately and take a picture of the back of each of the badges (certainly the proficiency ones) and include that in your listing too. (That also includes the plumes - as the stampings and marks help date and define which series they came from).

[johnG]

The green epaulettes are for Rover Scouts, being young men who reached the upper age for being Scouts and formed a Rover Crew for service to the community and to scouting.

Regards,

John

[Wooffy]

Proficiency Badges - the two John can't recall: the blue one with the red foot is a sea scout / air scout "tracker" badge and below that, the yellow / gold shield one for "Civil Defence"

[Peter Brydon]

One thing is certain, there is a lot of expertise on scout badges on the Forum.

I have enjoyed learning about the badges that Nemo posted.

If anyone posts anything on the GWF that is not strictly a WW1 ( military ) related item, the thread is immediately pulled, here we seem to be rather more relaxed and as a result I think we learn a lot more.

P.B.

[NEMO]

Gents , a very big thank you to you for your help - I owe you both a large drink , just looked on recent ebay sold lots and the printed badges fetched very good prices , so again thank you for the education - am trying to talk my self out of not starting a collection ...........

Peter , a valid point

[johnG]

Hi Nemo,

If you are thinking of collecting Scout badges then I recommend joining the
International Badgers Club, as their catalogues of badges worn by scouts and guides throughout the world are fantastic.

I was a keen collector of scout badges for many years but of late have rather let it lapse. This thread has rekindled my interest, so many thanks for that.

Best wishes,

John