My Pals Battalions - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

pioneercorps · #1 12-03-23, 01:37 PM

Hi All

My Pals Battalions display.

I didn't finish it because the interest went.

Two 16th (Cardiff) Battalion, Welsh Regiment collar dogs

Pals.jpg

41st · #2 12-03-23, 02:06 PM

Are you able to post a better quality photo? From what I can see at present it doesn’t look like your 16th Welsh are good ones. Technically they weren’t a Pals battalion either, that was the 11th.

Luke H · #3 12-03-23, 02:09 PM

I agree with Kevin.

The Middlesex Public Works Pioneers Battalion is definitely fake.

The antelopes neck shape on at least a couple of the Warwickshire’s and crown shape on Wandsworth Bn and 14th RIR YCV also causes me concern.

With a clearer picture we can confirm or allay.

mtrpltpara · #4 12-03-23, 03:51 PM

The Leeds Pals is no good,
Regards,
Bill.

gb64 · #5 12-03-23, 03:57 PM

Have to agree, none look to promising unfortunately, as said a better picture and all will be confirmed.

Gerard

Luke H · #6 12-03-23, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtrpltpara

The Leeds Pals is no good,
Regards,
Bill.

For me the key indicators determining Leeds Pals badges is the fleece horns position and the dots in the shield.

If you can see that in the above picture Bill you’re a better man than me and must have eyes like the Hubble telescope.

People often talk of leaning budgies etc. but the owl can easily have taken a knock as I’ve seen in the past a couple times. But, I would agree that it’s not looking too promising from what can be seen.

If you’ve found another method I’d love to hear it

pioneercorps · #7 12-03-23, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41st

Are you able to post a better quality photo? From what I can see at present it doesn’t look like your 16th Welsh are good ones. Technically they weren’t a Pals battalion either, that was the 11th.

Hi 41st

I Will try to post a better quality picture, but mine are taken from my phone camera so not going to be that good.

Not sure they were genuine when I bought them, the ones I wanted to be genuine, were the 1914 Regiments of the line, the others I picked up are what I call odds and sods

When I bought a book on collecting cap badges which was well into my collecting, it was by John Gaylor 3rd edition, it had The Cardiff Pals collar dogs, so I went with it.

Gerwyn

pioneercorps · #8 12-03-23, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke H

I agree with Kevin.

The Middlesex Public Works Pioneers Battalion is definitely fake.

The antelopes neck shape on at least a couple of the Warwickshire’s and crown shape on Wandsworth Bn and 14th RIR YCV also causes me concern.

With a clearer picture we can confirm or allay.

Hi Luke

The Warwickshire, I would say the 1st was genuine by the feel and look.

Do you have a photo of a genuine Middlesex Public Works badge, so I can compare the difference.

Gerwyn

[ATTACH]020.jpg[/ATTACH]

41st · #9 12-03-23, 04:45 PM

Hi Gerwyn,
Whilst Gaylor is a good basic 1st reference, unfortunately there are quite a few errors in there. The badge on the left is what a genuine 16th collar should look like. There are a lot of differences between the genuine & the modern copy but the easiest marker is that if you can see the face of the seahorse then it’s a duffer.
Hwyl,
Kevin

pioneercorps · #10 12-03-23, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtrpltpara

The Leeds Pals is no good,
Regards,
Bill.

Hi Bill

I didn't think it was a genuine one by the look and feel of it, but I had to have it go with John Gaylor list.

[ATTACH]021.jpg[/ATTACH]

Luke H · #11 12-03-23, 04:52 PM

The Leeds Pals is indeed fake, as is the Wandsworth Battalion.

There are many pictures of genuine Middx Public Works badges on the forum. If you search ‘PWPB’ or ‘Public Works’ in the forum’s search function they should be easy to find.

I cannot see any close ups of your 1st Birmingham Pals?

Just to add to what Kevin has said there is a better quality second fake die for the Cardiff City Bns collars, attached. Again significant differences to the real thing.

pioneercorps · #12 12-03-23, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41st

Hi Gerwyn,
Whilst Gaylor is a good basic 1st reference, unfortunately there are quite a few errors in there. The badge on the left is what a genuine 16th collar should look like. There are a lot of differences between the genuine & the modern copy but the easiest marker is that if you can see the face of the seahorse then it’s a duffer.
Hwyl,
Kevin

Hi Kevin

Thank you for showing what the genuine ones look like. not the best images, taken by my phone.

Gerwyn

[ATTACH]027.jpg[/ATTACH]

I must say they look a lot better, when looking at them in my hand, than they do in my photo of them.

Jelly Terror · #13 12-03-23, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pioneercorps

Hi Luke

The Warwickshire, I would say the 1st was genuine by the feel and look.

Do you have a photo of a genuine Middlesex Public Works badge, so I can compare the difference.

Gerwyn

[ATTACH]Attachment 280879[/ATTACH]

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...5&postcount=13

JT

pioneercorps · #14 12-03-23, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...5&postcount=13

JT

H Dave

Thank you for showing me the genuine one, mine must have been a good quality repro, it has a gap between the three plumes unlike yours, which has a flash.

It dose have the three connections at the back attaching the second scroll.

Gerwyn

Jelly Terror · #15 12-03-23, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pioneercorps

H Dave

Thank you for showing me the genuine one, mine must have been a good quality repro, it has a gap between the three plumes unlike yours, which has a flash.

It dose have the three connections at the back attaching the second scroll.

Gerwyn

Dave Moore has slightly better shots of it in his album. It comes with watertight provenance, having been issued to his grandfather.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=46975

Regards,

JT