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  #1  
Old 17-01-22, 07:38 PM
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Default Victorian Crowns pre/post-1881

Would anyone be so kind as to explain the difference between a pre-1881 and a post-1881 Victorian Crown (images would be greatly appreciate), as I'm after a pre-1881 gilded Victorian Crown as worn on caps.

Thank you.
Vincent
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  #2  
Old 17-01-22, 07:40 PM
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No difference at all.

regards
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  #3  
Old 17-01-22, 08:00 PM
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No difference at all.

regards
Simon I've seen some on dealers sites stating as such. That's why i'm asking!

Thanks
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  #4  
Old 17-01-22, 08:05 PM
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The 'Victorian Crown' is in fact the Saint Edwards Crown same as that used by Queen Elizabeth the Second at her coronation. It is simply a representation of the same crown!

The Queen wears the 'Imperial State Crown' at the opening of Parliament, and this crown is also known as the 'Kings Crown'

It is not known which crown Prince Charles will use on military badges when the Queen dies...
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  #5  
Old 17-01-22, 08:24 PM
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Perhaps some confusion with the flat topped "Jubilee" Crown, although I don't know why 1881 would figure?
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  #6  
Old 17-01-22, 09:58 PM
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May or may not help.
Marc

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=36751
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I am still looking for the cloth Formation sleeve badges and a few others from the Sultanate of Oman. https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=4393
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  #7  
Old 18-01-22, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOMalta View Post
Simon I've seen some on dealers sites stating as such. That's why i'm asking!

Thanks
Find another dealer... the one making the statement clearly does not know his stuff, so I would be weary of spending hard earned money with them...
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  #8  
Old 18-01-22, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Perhaps some confusion with the flat topped "Jubilee" Crown, although I don't know why 1881 would figure?
I have a niggling thought that her son took over as CiC of the military and some regiments changed their crowns...?
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  #9  
Old 18-01-22, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_2817 View Post
It is not known which crown Prince Charles will use on military badges when the Queen dies...
I'm sure I've read somewhere that its already been decided by MoD that there will be no change - in order to limit costs.
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  #10  
Old 27-01-22, 04:07 AM
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I'm sure I've read somewhere that its already been decided by MoD that there will be no change - in order to limit costs.
For one thing, there is no such thing as a King's Crown and a Queen's Crown. The Tudor Crown (mistaken for the King's Crown) was introduced in the 1880's during the reign of Queen Victoria. Some regiments switched over to the Tudor Crown at this point, but some stayed with the St. Edwards Crown. It was during the reign of Edward VII that the Tudor Crown became standard, and was standard until 1953, a year after Queen Elizabeth became Queen. If you look at the Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Medal, you will notice that she is wearing the Tudor Crown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_...ronation_Medal

A further point to debunk the myth of the Queen's and King's Crown: the first and last monarch to wear the "King's Crown" was a Queen.
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  #11  
Old 27-01-22, 06:42 AM
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"King's Crown" and "Queen's Crown" are however convenient shorthand terms amongst collectors. to identify a style of crown albeit not foolproof, eg "Queen's Crown" may be taken by some to signify one worn by Queen Victoria.
King's Crown, Jubilee Crown, Victorian Crown, Queen's Crown, Guelphic Crown, Durbar Crown etc - has anyone any suggestions for more accurate two or three word descriptions for the various types that badge collectors should use?
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  #12  
Old 27-01-22, 10:52 AM
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Where on earth did you get the notion that...



"The Tudor Crown (mistaken for the King's Crown) was introduced in the 1880's during the reign of Queen Victoria."
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  #13  
Old 27-01-22, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
"King's Crown" and "Queen's Crown" are however convenient shorthand terms amongst collectors. to identify a style of crown albeit not foolproof, eg "Queen's Crown" may be taken by some to signify one worn by Queen Victoria.
King's Crown, Jubilee Crown, Victorian Crown, Queen's Crown, Guelphic Crown, Durbar Crown etc - has anyone any suggestions for more accurate two or three word descriptions for the various types that badge collectors should use?
As a 'novice' I used the Wiki descriptions :

St Edward's Crown is the centrepiece of the Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom. Named after Saint Edward the Confessor, it has been traditionally used to crown English and British monarchs at their coronations since the 13th century.

The Imperial State Crown has existed in various forms since the 15th century. The current version was made in 1937 and is worn by the monarch after a coronation (St Edward's Crown having been used to crown the monarch) and used at the State Openings of Parliament.

The Tudor Crown, also known as the King's Crown or Imperial Crown, is a widely used symbol in heraldry of the United Kingdom. Officially it was used from 1902 to 1953 representing not only the British monarch personally, but also "the Crown", meaning the sovereign source of governmental authority.

As long as I knew which was which the 'details' didn't bother me .


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  #14  
Old 27-01-22, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catbadge View Post
For one thing, there is no such thing as a King's Crown and a Queen's Crown. The Tudor Crown (mistaken for the King's Crown) was introduced in the 1880's during the reign of Queen Victoria. Some regiments switched over to the Tudor Crown at this point, but some stayed with the St. Edwards Crown. It was during the reign of Edward VII that the Tudor Crown became standard, and was standard until 1953, a year after Queen Elizabeth became Queen. If you look at the Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Medal, you will notice that she is wearing the Tudor Crown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_...ronation_Medal

A further point to debunk the myth of the Queen's and King's Crown: the first and last monarch to wear the "King's Crown" was a Queen.
The Tudor crown was introduced by King Henry VIII a member of the House of Tudor hence the name and used on the Royal coat of arms, coinage, cannons etc.

The flat topped crown I believe you are referring to found on cap badges worn in the QVC era was Queen Victoria’s Imperial State Crown made in 1838.

The ‘myth’ (?) you refer to are rather a shorthand colloquial terminology for the St. Edward’s crown (QC) and Tudor crown (KC).

Indeed the QVC as it is commonly referred to is just a more stylised shape to the St. Edward’s crown used by the current monarch.
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  #15  
Old 27-01-22, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post

As long as I knew which was which the 'details' didn't bother me .


.
100000%.
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