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  #16  
Old 19-08-21, 12:25 AM
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Ian B Ian B is offline
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Default Re: Polish para qual

Thanks Woofy, should have twigged to the fact the small badge had a fleur-de-lys on it.

S-W, that's interesting about the name. Just received info from the gent who holds these items that the Polish vet's name was Lt. Kazimierz BARTOSZYNSKI. So, it appears the first name is correct, but the surname doesn't match. Waiting to see what info others can provide. More checking required at my end I guess.

Thanks to all who took the time to research and reply. Stay safe and have fun.

Ian
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  #17  
Old 19-08-21, 09:12 AM
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no BARTOSZYNSKI in Materialy Zeszyt 9. when Jan Lorys did this work it was all done " longhand " so to speak, going through the card indexes and bashing away with an old typewriter, no PC! the final paragraph in the introduction of the book states

Great care has been taken to find correct names and information. Nevertheless, there may be some mistakes. The publishers ask for corrections or doubts to be passed on to them. They will be verified and, if correct, published in the next Zeszyt of Materialy.

unfortunately Jan Lorys passed away a while back and no further information has been published.
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Last edited by silverwash; 20-08-21 at 08:38 AM. Reason: postscript
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  #18  
Old 19-08-21, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian B View Post
S-W, that's interesting about the name. Just received info from the gent who holds these items that the Polish vet's name was Lt. Kazimierz BARTOSZYNSKI. So, it appears the first name is correct, but the surname doesn't match. Waiting to see what info others can provide. More checking required at my end I guess.
The name on the back of the plaque appears to me to be BARTOSZYNSKI (spelling ?) and on a list of "aircrew remembered" there is a Bartoszewski, Kazimierz ?

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/Arc...list-a-z.html#

Found another list of Polish airmen that includes :

Bartoszewicz Kazimierz

Bartoszewski Kazimierz

https://listakrzystka.pl/en/ba-bi/page/14/


NB- I cannot find Kazimierz Gontorzynski on either list

.
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  #19  
Old 23-08-21, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian B View Post
Thanks Woofy, should have twigged to the fact the small badge had a fleur-de-lys on it.

S-W, that's interesting about the name. Just received info from the gent who holds these items that the Polish vet's name was Lt. Kazimierz BARTOSZYNSKI. So, it appears the first name is correct, but the surname doesn't match. Waiting to see what info others can provide. More checking required at my end I guess.

Thanks to all who took the time to research and reply. Stay safe and have fun.

Ian
Hello
The badge was awarded to Lt Kazimierz GONTORZYNSKI - wing no 0633.
1st Corps was HQ authorised to award the badges during this time. It doesn't mean that he served in the 1st Corps.
He was possibly in 1st Rifles Brigade.
This is an early wing made by Grupa Techniczna when the spinners were not marked.
I hope it helps.
Rafal
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  #20  
Old 23-08-21, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popskipa View Post
Examples of the Polish Parachutist Qualification badge, both makers shown...
Hi
The badges are genuin but combat wing is "artificial". The badge come from a group of unissued (unused) insignia nos 331-500.
Somebody added combat wreath to this badge making it "combat".
I can't read the full number of the wreath.
Cheers
Rafal
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  #21  
Old 23-08-21, 04:59 PM
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Hi all.
I have just published a book about Polish Army in Exile parachute and glider insignia - a result of over 20 years of collecting, PhD studies etc.
400 pages, over 300 images, hard cover.
For this moment in Polish only.
Cheers
Rafal
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File Type: jpg 20210813_084713.jpg (51.7 KB, 27 views)
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  #22  
Old 23-08-21, 05:03 PM
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I was googling, looking for your Book as recently as yesterday - any idea if and when it will be available in English or Polish / English please?
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  #23  
Old 23-08-21, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
I was googling, looking for your Book as recently as yesterday - any idea if and when it will be available in English or Polish / English please?
Hi.
The Polish version is available in Polish portal:

https://sklep.defence24.pl/produkt/t...ych-1941-1947/

Unfortunately they sell within Poland only (I could assist to buy the book if somebody is interested).

English version no ealier than next year
The translation is slowly in progress ...
Rafal
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  #24  
Old 23-08-21, 05:14 PM
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Thanks - I'd better wait for the English version, I look forward to it.

Ammendment 1 - private message sent re. obtaining a Polish language copy please.

Just sent paypal.......

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 23-08-21 at 05:53 PM.
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  #25  
Old 24-08-21, 12:07 AM
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Good day Rafal,

I also would be interested in a copy in English of your book (as long as I don't have to sell my first born to get it!)

I will have to double check on the surname, but as has been mentioned previously, records might be wrong. I'll pass it on when I can confirm.

Thanks again for everyone's input on the badge.

Ian
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  #26  
Old 24-08-21, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian B View Post
Good day Rafal,

I also would be interested in a copy in English of your book (as long as I don't have to sell my first born to get it!)

I will have to double check on the surname, but as has been mentioned previously, records might be wrong. I'll pass it on when I can confirm.

Thanks again for everyone's input on the badge.

Ian
Hello Ian,
For sure you will afford it
Don't worry - I will announce when the book will be ready

This name comes from a list made by Lorys - I can also check original register of badges.

Cheers
Rafal
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  #27  
Old 24-08-21, 11:00 AM
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Was the para qual ever produced in the UK during the war, and if so, how do you tell the difference between that and ones produced in Poland?

[/QUOTE]

WW2 pattern of Polish combat parachute badge officialy appeared in Polish Army in 1967 as parachutist and parachute jump instructor badges (Communist period).
But it has a little bit different details, material, classification, etc.
Also no serial number and no motto.
The badges are still in use.
Rafal
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  #28  
Old 24-08-21, 11:56 PM
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Rafal,

Just to clarify, I meant were any para badges produced in Poland prior to 1939 and the invasion?

Rereading Bragg & Turner 1st ed., courses started in 1937/37 with a jump school opened in 1939. One course of 80 completed training, but the second did not because of the start of the war.

If a para qual was created prior to 1939, how does one tell the difference between it and the ones produced in England during the war?

Attached are the Polish para quals and badges that I have in my collection. I am aware that the two eagle badges are post war.

Ian
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File Type: jpg Polish.jpg (64.4 KB, 28 views)
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The day the government succeeds in taking away our dress uniforms, badges and colours, and all the so called "non-functional" items; they will find themselves with an army that cannot defend them. Robert Heinlein, "Starship Troopers"
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  #29  
Old 25-08-21, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian B View Post
Rafal,

Just to clarify, I meant were any para badges produced in Poland prior to 1939 and the invasion?

Rereading Bragg & Turner 1st ed., courses started in 1937/37 with a jump school opened in 1939. One course of 80 completed training, but the second did not because of the start of the war.

If a para qual was created prior to 1939, how does one tell the difference between it and the ones produced in England during the war?

Attached are the Polish para quals and badges that I have in my collection. I am aware that the two eagle badges are post war.

Ian
Ah, OK - pre-1939 period (2nd Republic) not post WW2 :-)

Besides air force parachute rescue training (first course started in 1927), in 1936 paramilitary organisation called Liga Obrony Powietrznej i Przeciwgazowej (LOPP) - Anti Gas and Air Defence League started mass parachute training for youth (like in Soviet Union a few years ealier).

Until 1939 in different towns of Poland 17 parachute towers were built.
Parachute towers were used for basic training but additionaly LOPP organised more advanced training including jumps from baloons and planes. The most advanced training included parachute jump instructor courses.

LOPP was led my military authorities and additional parachute courses for military personel were organised (rather sport character). Basic para training (tower jumps) became a part of PT training in some Officer Schools and NCO Schools.

In June 1939 Military Parachute Training Center (Wojskowy Osrodek Spadochronowy - WOS) was established in Bydgoszcz. They conducted typical military parachute and demolitions trainings. Only one full course was held prior outbreak of WW2. Also a few small parachute exercises were organised.

In total, from 1936 to 1939 approx. 5 000 parachute jumps were made on courses organised by LOPP.
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  #30  
Old 25-08-21, 08:51 AM
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There was no Polish military parachute badge before 1941. First was parachute badge (znak spadochronowy) established in UK in Exile in 1941.

But LOPP issued 4 separate parachute badges (sport) for different levels of training. There is a very limited information on those badges besides a few existing pieces and related documents (no archival docs).
First known award documents are dated 1937.

I was fortunate to describe all 4 LOPP parachute badges in my book:
- for tower jumps
- for baloon jumps
- for aircraft jumps
- for parachute instructors (PJI).
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