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  #31  
Old 09-01-22, 06:59 PM
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Wylie plated and standard.
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  #32  
Old 10-01-22, 02:41 PM
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Thanks for the photos but they don't convince me that the badge was originally manufactured with the 'finer jeweller type hinge'.

I think both the badges shown have , at some point , been repaired/modified. The basic brass one looks to have had the lower 'catch' replaced and the plated one had the pin fitting replaced with a newer (jeweller hinge) one.

Lots of badges turn up with one or both attachments damaged , missing , or replaced this may be due to the fittings being badly brazed (?) making the attachment weak.

Both badges shown appear to have an 'oval footed' replacement which is not normally seen on these badges.

The other 'plated' examples I have seen :

1. Gaunt (jeweller hinge) - In post #1 , I think this was a basic badge that has been made to look like a more expensive plated one.

2. Gaunt (basic fitting) - On Sally Bosley's site (search 57891) , a nickel plated badge that could have been 'plated' any time after it was issued.

3. Described as "appears to be nickel plated as there's brass showing through on the bottom left corner" (basic fitting) - From an old post , no back view but angle of pin would indicate a basic fitting.

N.B - I am definitely not immediately assuming that these badges cannot have existed but I am just trying to find proof either way.

Tom Tulloch-Marshall's article (which was published in 2 parts in MHS Bulletins) was well researched including Ministry of Munitions files and yet made no mention of 'special' badges :

Quote:
The 1916 badge for women seems to have been produced as nothing but a plain brass stamping.
We really need to see more examples of the badge to expand our knowledge.


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  #33  
Old 10-01-22, 05:43 PM
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I have never actually handed a nickel plated example of the 1916 badge that shows any signs of having been repaired, although, I cannot comment upon those that I have not, to give an opinion just from a photograph would be very difficult.
I will have a look at the other examples and I will raise this matter on Wednesday with the secretary of the MHS who has collected these badges for a number of decades, I have to say that I am very surprised that the published work you refer to does not mention nickel plated examples of these badges, which I have never regarded as special in any way whatsoever.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Thanks for the photos but they don't convince me that the badge was originally manufactured with the 'finer jeweller type hinge'.

I think both the badges shown have , at some point , been repaired/modified. The basic brass one looks to have had the lower 'catch' replaced and the plated one had the pin fitting replaced with a newer (jeweller hinge) one.

Lots of badges turn up with one or both attachments damaged , missing , or replaced this may be due to the fittings being badly brazed (?) making the attachment weak.

Both badges shown appear to have an 'oval footed' replacement which is not normally seen on these badges.

The other 'plated' examples I have seen :

1. Gaunt (jeweller hinge) - In post #1 , I think this was a basic badge that has been made to look like a more expensive plated one.

2. Gaunt (basic fitting) - On Sally Bosley's site (search 57891) , a nickel plated badge that could have been 'plated' any time after it was issued.

3. Described as "appears to be nickel plated as there's brass showing through on the bottom left corner" (basic fitting) - From an old post , no back view but angle of pin would indicate a basic fitting.

N.B - I am definitely not immediately assuming that these badges cannot have existed but I am just trying to find proof either way.

Tom Tulloch-Marshall's article (which was published in 2 parts in MHS Bulletins) was well researched including Ministry of Munitions files and yet made no mention of 'special' badges :



We really need to see more examples of the badge to expand our knowledge.


.
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  #34  
Old 10-01-22, 07:36 PM
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I have this example:
Wlyie plated with brass showing through at bottom right corner.

Tim
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Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 12-01-22 at 09:00 AM.
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  #35  
Old 11-01-22, 07:23 AM
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One from an old auction , described as 'white metal' , the top fitting is a basic one and it looks like the bottom 'catch' has been repaired/replaced by an 'oval footed' one.

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  #36  
Old 11-01-22, 10:07 AM
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gaunt and Wylie examples:
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  #37  
Old 11-01-22, 10:11 AM
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Thanks , the more examples ..... the more confusion !


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  #38  
Old 11-01-22, 10:12 AM
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Close up of 2 Wylie ones, one nickel, one brass - no obvious repair that my eyes can see....

cheers, Tim
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  #39  
Old 11-01-22, 10:27 AM
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Very nice, I don't have any examples of the plated badge with the sheet metal hinge, but, many do remain extant.


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Close up of 2 Wylie ones, one nickel, one brass - no obvious repair that my eyes can see....

cheers, Tim
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  #40  
Old 11-01-22, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipper View Post
Close up of 2 Wylie ones, one nickel, one brass - no obvious repair that my eyes can see....

cheers, Tim
A really good photo of the "oval footed" hinge , I just checked and the same fitting was used on early Gaunt British Legion badges.

Looks like I was wrong and I guess I'll have to keep digging to see if I can find any documentation about these badges.

NB - I see that the badges posted have a wide range of numbers (66*** to 350***) , so were probably manufactured over the 3 years they were issued.


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  #41  
Old 11-01-22, 02:04 PM
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The oval pds are normally soft soldered on and are very thin guage metal and would be a lot more expensive than a cut length of brass tube or piece of bent wire for the C catch, I'd say most of these have been repaired at some point.
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  #42  
Old 11-01-22, 03:12 PM
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Plates between the hinge and the reverse of many brooches were fairly commonplace and in no way signify a repair, as you suggested in post thirty two, I was talking to a local jeweller this morning who also sells vintage brooches including Great War sweethearts and he pointed out that so many are actually in unworn condition so very clearly have not been subject to any repair whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
A really good photo of the "oval footed" hinge , I just checked and the same fitting was used on early Gaunt British Legion badges.

Looks like I was wrong and I guess I'll have to keep digging to see if I can find any documentation about these badges.

NB - I see that the badges posted have a wide range of numbers (66*** to 350***) , so were probably manufactured over the 3 years they were issued.


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  #43  
Old 11-01-22, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
Plates between the hinge and the reverse of many brooches were fairly commonplace and in no way signify a repair, as you suggested in post thirty two, I was talking to a local jeweller this morning who also sells vintage brooches including Great War sweethearts and he pointed out that so many are actually in unworn condition so very clearly have not been subject to any repair whatsoever.
I agree , I have BL badges with the same fitting and have seen it used on numerous other brooches . My 'thinking' was based on seeing other OWS badges where the catch has been broken and replaced with an "oval footed" one. This would seem to be a quick , easy fix that most jewellers could do and I would imagine that if a hinge broke (as they must have done) then replacing it with an oval footed one would also be a simple procedure.

Also the fact that 'plated' badges from Gaunt and Wylie are around with both hinge and basic fittings .

I'm probably overthinking this and would just like to thank you and the others who have patiently and politely put up with my ramblings !

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  #44  
Old 11-01-22, 03:57 PM
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Default Marble 1916 OWS badge

While digging around I spotted an interesting story about a "munitionette".

Quote:
Rose Edwards left Guernsey to work as a “Munitionette” at Woolwich Arsenal. In early February 1917 in icy weather she was walking home with a group of workers across one of London’s bridges when two girls slipped and fell. One girl broke her hip, the other her leg. Miss Edwards stayed with them until an ambulance arrived but caught a chill from which she died on the 13th of February. She was buried in Plumstead cemetery in London.
Here grave had fallen into disrepair and a researcher arranged for its renovation. At the foot of the grave , on the marble surround/edging was an engraved 1916 OWS badge.

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  #45  
Old 11-01-22, 04:41 PM
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Hey Mike,

the discussion, wherever it leads, and whatever the outcome (or lack thereof) is the interesting part. No theories, wild or sensible, should be discounted until they are proven wrong or right. Workshopping things like this is a pleasure with the members here, and your input is always appreciated and valued. The fact it is so unclear makes it, to me, more interesting, and hearing differing views gets me thinking. I do appreciate the ramblings! How very nice it has been done in a most respectful way by all here.

And what a super find on poor Rose.

cheers, Tim
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