Ggfg

[fearnaught]

Hi, what period were these worn? Just in case you wondered why cav. & arm. I'm hoping it includes '39 to '45.

[Voltigeur]

Hi fearnaught, the one person to answer you is Clive of servicepub, he knows everything about this unit.
Cheers
Jo

Fearnaught - I haven't worked out what Gqfq means - never very good at alphabet soup - prefer grown-up English ! Your badges, on the other hand, seem first class - what exactly are you asking about them ? They are officers cap badge (large one) and collar badge for blue patrol tunic (small one) - Coldstream Guards, of course. Period worn - 1930s to 1960s. Someone else may have more specific dates from Dress Regulations (although Guards often exempted themselves from regs.) Regards. David

[boots and saddles]

Fear naught, I can't answer your question but what means did you use to scan or photograph the back side of your badges Whatever means, it's a fantastic picture ,never saw one as good. & Douglas that's a Governor General's Foot Guard's cap & collar & it's Canadian. Ray

[DavidS]

Thompson Cap Badges and Insignia of the Canadian Army 1953-1973 lists a GGFG "Q36b Miniature", described as "Officer's small, 1 1/2H, 1W" Also says "no collars authorized". Hard to tell from the pic. (both yours and Thompson's) whether the motto is enameled or pierced, but badge looks to me to be the same, with the English title per your example, rather than Latin. So that one could be the right badge.

Left hand (lge) badge: The English motto makes me wonder if this is later rather than earlier (i.e. post '53 as well). Assuming both badges came from the same source, I'd guess that they date to the same period. Maybe Thompson missed a version? Where's Jaime or Wayne when you need them?

[Pylon1357]

Originally Posted by David Douglas

Fearnaught - I haven't worked out what Gqfq means - never very good at alphabet soup - prefer grown-up English ! Your badges, on the other hand, seem first class - what exactly are you asking about them ? They are officers cap badge (large one) and collar badge for blue patrol tunic (small one) - Coldstream Guards, of course. Period worn - 1930s to 1960s. Someone else may have more specific dates from Dress Regulations (although Guards often exempted themselves from regs.) Regards. David

Hello David, to explain the Ggfg....Ggfg or GGFG is the Governor General Foot Guards. The GGFG are an Ottawa Ontario based Regiment.

The follwing is a very brief outake from my notes.

The Governor General’s Foot Guards (21st Armoured Regiment)
4th Canadian Armoured Brigade, 4th Canadian Armoured Division
Home Station Ottawa Ontario
Mobilized May 24, 1940
Embarked for the United Kingdom on September 23, 1942
Landed in Normandy on July 25, 1944

Battle Honours Falaise, The Laison, Chambois, The Scheldt, The Lower Maas, The Rhineland, The Hochwald, Veen, Bad Zwischenahn, North-West Europe 1944-1945


Also attached is my GGFG set from the Second World War. NOTE the difference in the badges as mentioned. The cap badge on mine is in latin, the one posted first is in english.

[Bill A]

Mazeas Pre 1914 book lists the English script badges, while as Cliff notes, the 1920-50 period lists the badge with the Latin script.
Clive, where are you?

[Doug N]

Until Clive shows up, I'll offer a less weighty opinion. I'd say Fearnaught's badges are pre WW2, probably from sometime in the '30's. By WW2 the officers badges were displaying the motto (in Latin) rather than the regiments name (in English) Apparently this change was driven by a desire to emulate the practices of some of the British guards regiments.

The badge pictured below shows the motto pattern. Reverse details are virtually identical to Fearnaught's - same oval plate, retaining tabs, etc.

The second picture is a little known variant of this badge. This pattern features the buckle at the top, with the motto reading counter-clockwise. Because of thier extreme rarity these badges are seldom seen, & always fetch a premium when sold or traded.

I should have read the title within the garter - must be getting very, very old ! Not hard to see, however, where they drew their inspiration for a cap badge design. Presumably as the regiment uses the star of the Order of the Garter, there must be some connection with the Order ? Regards. David

[Bill A]

Excellent images Doug. This adds a lot of information to the Mazeas 1920-50 catalogue.
David, the GGFG have been formally allied to the Coldstream Guards since 1872, the date of the formation of the regiment. The unit modified the badge of the Coldstream Guards originally. It represented the provinces of Confederation at the time of the formtion of the regiment. (Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and British Columbia) This pattern (and its varieties) was replaced by the "6 pointed rayed star with the Cross of St George in the centre, and the regimental motto in the annulus". The recent regimental history, Steady the Buttons Two by Two (Foster et al), indicates that the pattern of badge illustrated by Doug was adopted in 1932.

[Doug N]

I'm embarrassed that you should compliment my images, Bill, without reference to the obvious mischief they contain. The second picture - the ultra rare variant - is simply the first picture turned upside down. Since no one has commented directly, I will assume that either my joke was so clever that nobody 'got it', or so silly that nobody laughed. Either way, I'll come clean now, just in case someone is adding this 'variant' to their wants list.

Re. the early English text badge - I once had an example of this in frosted siver with tang fasteners. (Honest, I really did fellas) It was a stunner.

[Bill A]

Got me. Well done Doug.

Now if anyone wants the also ultra rare inverted or's badge....

[servicepub]

I guess I am coming to this thread too late to look like a genius. All of the answers have been provided.
The six-pointed star represents the 6 provices in existence in 1872 - the year the GGFG were authorized. Although officers wore collars for a short period the small badge show is the badge worn on the drab Service Dress cap while the large badge was worn on the blue undress cap. In 1932 the regiment discoverd that British Guards badges displayed the latin motto and not the regimental name so they changed the badge design then. That said, the change-over would have taken years as there was no need to buy a new badge if you were already in possession of the earlier pattern.
With WWII there was some confusion over which badge should be worn. Ultimately the smal badge became the beret badge also - as it is to this day - and the large badge was worn on the CF Service Dress cap as well as the blue undress cap.
(Doug - a wry grin crossed my lips when I read about your 'variant' so it wasn't completely lost)

Pre-1932 large badge on undress cap


WWII small badge on service dress cap


WWII officers showing both sizes in wear on the beret

[Pylon1357]

Hey Clive, not sure if I showed you the reverse of the one collar badge I displayed. It has the service number C58136 scratched into the back. Also it had something eles scratched into it at the top, looks almost as if it were B cy but the "B" is backwards.

[fearnaught]

Hi, thanks for all the help. I can put them in my armoured collection without worries. Thanks again for all the contributions, Mike