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  #16  
Old 10-02-19, 11:18 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
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Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
If you are knowingly selling fakes as a member of this Forum, in my opinion you should be banned.
Andy
Andy, I couldn't agree more, it's an absolutely ridiculous situation.
  #17  
Old 11-02-19, 12:25 AM
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Jeff Mc William Jeff Mc William is offline
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Hi Paul (and others) :
I fully realise who you are getting at, and believe it or not, I share your frustration. But I do feel one has to be pragmatic regarding the problem of repros/fakes.
Lets face it, we are all guilty of deriding those films or re-enactments where the uniforms or badge details are ridiculously inaccurate, while at the same time condemning such items when someone has made a concerted effort to make them at least appear authentic. You can't have it both ways. And, while one may deplore the fact that certain individuals will always exploit the situation for their own ends, it is futile to pretend we can stop this … its like trying to un-invent the atomic bomb … we have to learn to live with it.
Like it or not, we can only contest the situation by facing up to the challenge, educating ourselves, and "upping our game" to expose these frauds as and when they occur. This indeed applies to all collecting hobbies ; art, coins, and medals etc., It is no use being in denial .. that is not an option, and, if you disagree, I would be very interested to hear your solution to the problem. Regards Jeff
  #18  
Old 11-02-19, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
If you are knowingly selling fakes as a member of this Forum, in my opinion you should be banned.
Andy
Agree completely Andy. How are us amateur collectors supposed to trust the forum if this goes on.....
  #19  
Old 11-02-19, 08:19 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Ah yes, the "But"

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Originally Posted by rhodesianmilitaria View Post
Andrew. Is that helping?
  #20  
Old 11-02-19, 09:11 AM
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This is how I see it, we all draw our own lines when it comes to good and bad/ right and wrong, and as all 7.683 billion of us human beings are individuals there is never going to be a consensus on a complex question like this, the moderators have made a rule that you can't sell fakes on this site which is probably as far as they can go both sensibly and legally.

Here is my opinion if anyone is interested.

Badges don't only exist for the benefit of badge collectors, replica/fake badges are needed for movies and living history and therefore must exist, they should be well marked so anyone can tell, not just friends of the manufacturer who know their initials.

Even putting a replacement slider, lug, enamel, or black finish on a badge to a degree makes that badge a fake, repairing a broken badge with its own original parts is probably OK. Selling a recently repaired badge unmarked as such is at best irresponsible.

But its only legally wrong if you pass fake items on as real.

And I don't expect everyone to agree.

Rob
  #21  
Old 11-02-19, 10:49 AM
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Crap is crap and dealers in crap don't belong on this forum, it's as simple as that.
  #22  
Old 11-02-19, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Mc William View Post
Hi Paul (and others) :
. And, while one may deplore the fact that certain individuals will always exploit the situation for their own ends, it is futile to pretend we can stop this … its like trying to un-invent the atomic bomb … we have to learn to live with it.
You miss the point entirely. When have I ever said that the selling of fakes can be stopped. I'll answer the question for you — never!
So your point "it is futile to pretend we can stop this" is moot.
Only weak people "learn to live it." Strong people fight it. Is this a forum for collectors of genuine militaria or a forum for people who sell fakes as well.
Let's not beat around the bush. A reproduction or a copy is a fake.

When people like Andrew Butler make a fake Selous Scouts beret badge and then adds the makers name of original Selous Scouts beret badges then that is deceit.

The sooner the mods on this forum grow a set and turf these deceitful grubs from the forum the better it will be. I won't be holding my breath.
  #23  
Old 11-02-19, 11:14 AM
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Kicking them off the forum will not stop them selling fakes. Kicking them off the forum won't even stop them seeing the forum.
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
  #24  
Old 11-02-19, 11:17 AM
rhodesianmilitaria rhodesianmilitaria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
there is never going to be a consensus on a complex question like this, the moderators have made a rule that you can't sell fakes on this site which is probably as far as they can go both sensibly and legally.
Rob
Bloody hell appeasers drive me nuts. The question is not complex. One either sells fakes or they don't — end of story.
Since when did a person who is a forum member or who wanted to join a forum have a say bigger than the creator of the forum?
Do explain what is illegal about refusing a person membership or banning a member?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Even putting a replacement slider, lug, enamel, or black finish on a badge to a degree makes that badge a fake.
Rob
No it doesn't. It means it's a genuine badge that has been tampered with. Maybe you should look up the word 'fake.'
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Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
But its only legally wrong if you pass fake items on as real.Rob
Lol. What has to be proven is that the person is knowingly selling a fake item. That's the crime which is extremely hard to prove in court.
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Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
And I don't expect everyone to agree.

Rob
You're right, I don't.
  #25  
Old 11-02-19, 11:20 AM
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Kick 'em off anyway!!!.
  #26  
Old 11-02-19, 11:32 AM
rhodesianmilitaria rhodesianmilitaria is offline
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Originally Posted by Phil2M View Post
Kicking them off the forum will not stop them selling fakes. Kicking them off the forum won't even stop them seeing the forum.
Why are some of you having a problem understanding? When has anyone said that removing them from the forum will stop them selling fakes?
Do you think that appeasing them or by turning the other cheek will change things?
The purpose of removing them from the forum is to show that the sellers of fakes won't be tolerated. To not remove them shows that the powers to be are weak and tolerate members selling fakes as long as it's not on the forum.
  #27  
Old 11-02-19, 11:42 AM
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Rob Miller Rob Miller is offline
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Not sure I've ever been called an "appeaser" before, I just looked the opposite of appeaser and I don't make a habit of doing any of that so maybe I am.

Rob
  #28  
Old 11-02-19, 11:44 AM
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Jeff Mc William Jeff Mc William is offline
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Peter
I think it is you that have missed the point : I am on your side for God's sake! But no matter how "strong" you are you cannot un-invent the atomic bomb or un-milk a cup of tea. These fakes are on the market … fact … all we can do is to un-mask them and expose the peddlers. Bona-fida re-enactment groups are not to blame, but there will always be smart-arse individuals who will attempt to capitalise on our ignorance. Wise up. This Forum and other badge collecting groups such as the MHS are an excellent way of combatting this exploitation.

Last edited by Jeff Mc William; 11-02-19 at 12:21 PM.
  #29  
Old 11-02-19, 12:00 PM
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Surely if the seller of fake badges is a gentlemen he will immediately offer his resignation.
  #30  
Old 11-02-19, 12:38 PM
altcar73 altcar73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesianmilitaria View Post
Why are some of you having a problem understanding? When has anyone said that removing them from the forum will stop them selling fakes?
Do you think that appeasing them or by turning the other cheek will change things?
The purpose of removing them from the forum is to show that the sellers of fakes won't be tolerated. To not remove them shows that the powers to be are weak and tolerate members selling fakes as long as it's not on the forum.
The gentleman who runs this forum (incidentally I don't know him) spends a considerable amount of time (and I suspect cash) in providing this free facility for us all to enjoy. Whilst I can understand your frustration that he will not do what you want him to do, I can also understand why he does not wish to become involved in potential legal issues or arguments. If you don't like how the forum is run, then perhaps you should spend the time and money in setting up your own and when you do so you can then dictate accordingly.

Dave.
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