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#106
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This being said, although I agree that the way that politicians of all stripe have lost contact with the British people and needed a good kick up the rear end, this is what my old grandma used to call "cutting off your nose to spite your face". Not forgetting the years of uncertainty and financial loss for whatever is left of the UK, and the discontent from near half of the country. That amount of our people can hardly be "a mouthpiece for rentamob". It is genuine discontent, and with good reason. Although I hesitate to quote a proven liar, most recently over the money that could go to the NHS instead of Europe, Nigel Farage not too long ago called for a second referendum in the event of the result being this close: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/rememb...endum-5963900/
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Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina |
#107
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What left wing bias?
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Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina |
#108
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If so, I have some magic beans that you might be interested in buying. Much of what you have been told are outright lies. For example, our borders are secure. We have (had?) an agreement with the French who stopped people the other side of the channel. Why would people be living in squatters camps outside Calais and trying to sneak in to the UK in the back of lorries and in kayaks if our borders were open? I think you will find that getting on for half the country believe the tut that I have been putting on here. The thing about this forum is that most badge collectors tend to be older, many ex forces etc. Now, in my yoghurt knitting forum it would be you that is the odd one out.
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Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina |
#109
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#110
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Where I would tke issue with you is this. What good will leaving the EU do you? Firstly, our economy will shrink, leaving less money to spend and, more importantly, you mention Nissan, which is near Sunderland. If at the end of the negotiations there are tariff barriers imposed Nissan will probably be near Gdansk. Far eastern capital is where it is to make a profit, it owes no loyalty to this country and will cut and run for Poland or wherever at the drop of a hat. Even in the case of London they are expecting foreign banks and finance houses to relocate behind the EU borders. Some, a minority at present, are calling for London to leave the UK and stay in the EU. Your solution is to leave the EU. I hope that that works out for you, I really do, but I wouldn't put any money on it. Maybe the north east can join up with an independent Scotland? Although it was rather a long time ago Newcastle, it is said, was once the capital of Scotland: https://exlaodicea.wordpress.com/201...tland-1138-57/
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Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina |
#111
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I will say that I respect your position and your arguments. You have stated your case in a thorough and educated way and consequently they make a refreshing difference from the recycled and biased arguments that have been delivered by politicians on both sides of the debate. It is true to say however that in this instance people have voted with their hearts rightly or wrongly and on both sides I am sure that they have done it for a love of their country. It is true also, as one commentator put, people will vote according to their circumstance and who am I to criticise them for that.
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#112
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Ever since the result I've wondered what the age group breakdown of the 28% that didn't vote is.
I also wonder what the outcome would have been had they even bothered to give their opinion. As it was the outcome was decided by those that bothered. I think it has something to do with the will of the majority. |
#113
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BWEF
I had considered contacting you via PM to express the points I make below rather than continue to post in this thread but I will instead attempt to use it to bow out of the thread: Below is the message that I was going to send you: Dear BWEF, I just wanted to say, that having decided to refrain from making further comment in the hotly debated topic of Brexit in the current thread which seems to me to be at the point where it is at risk of going round in circles, that I have enjoyed the spirited defence that you have displayed in expressing your position on the matter. Without wishing to appear condescending or patronising at all I would like to add that I have admired your tenacity, calmness and diplomacy which do you great credit even if in this case I am not inclined to agree with your position on many aspects of the debate. I am sure that there are those amongst us here that do share your viewpoint but are reluctant to state their views publicly, for which they can be forgiven. If for nothing else, I would like to thank you for giving some of us the opportunity to vent our spleens when for some there may be no other viable outlet for doing so amongst those who are able to argue in a civilised manner. I do detect an element of irony in your stance due to the fact that you seem to represent a lone voice in a sea of hostility, which is how many of us view the standpoint of our country, or at least those of us who have over time been left feeling shall I say, disenfranchised, by our membership of the EU. I don’t concede to your arguments but do respect your views and even more so the way you have remained loyal to them and stated your case. I am of the opinion that in the wider picture that there have been many untruths and much spin evident in the run up to the vote which I see as a consequence of what has been a dirty campaign of tit for tat scare mongering from both sides and view this with disappointment though regard it as understandable due to the emotive and serious nature of the referendum. You are a gentleman sir and you have in this matter, my admiration. I like you am not of the younger generation but I do have children both grown up and of primary school age as well as grandchildren whose future figured heavily in my deliberations and having voted out, I, and my conscience will have to live with the consequences of the withdrawal from the EU in the hope that I have done right by them with my vote. So, I ask please don’t be too hard on our generation as unlike those younger than us we bring to the equation life experience and the responsibility of parenthood and all that this entails as well as calm consideration of the facts as we see them regardless of the lies and spin that I mentioned and our final decision in many, many, cases has been given long and careful consideration which I know from my own experience is sometimes through no fault of their own not evident in the hearts and minds and decision making process of the younger generations, of whom I have fairly broad experience, gained from both service, civilian and family life. The one factor that overrides mine, yours, and the views of all who have contributed to this discussion is very fact that we are able to have this debate at all and I live in hope that the freedom of expression that allows us to do so will still be firmly in place when those younger generations have reached our age group after having lived in a free, democratic and fair society whilst making that journey. One day they may even thank our generation for the decisions that we made on their behalf by our concerted vote in the matter at hand. I offer no further argument, only time will tell if we have done the right thing. Kind regards Ry
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“The homely British consummated the long and bitter duty by which, at the end of their epic insular history, they saved Europe by their example.” Lest we forget. |
#114
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Mr Kipling - Exceedingly good badge books. |
#115
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The referendum was not about party politics and the people who voted out were as well informed as those who voted to remain , your attack on Cameron's lack of knowledge of the North East could just as easily have been aimed at Corbyn , or many of the Labour MPs who , allegedly, represent NE constituencies. To all those who voted to remain , I voted out fully in the knowledge that it wasn't going to be a cakewalk but having sufficient faith in the British people to know that we can overcome any difficulties as we have done in the past. |
#116
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I could not agree more!
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#117
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Our Parliament, now, has nowhere to hide Our vote really counts ... I am looking forward to the next general election..... that I hope is called sooner rather than later.
The new manifesto(s) will be worth reading now
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro Last edited by GriffMJ; 26-06-16 at 10:02 AM. |
#118
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I see from the news reports that many seem to view the result as a permission for xenophobic and racist behaviour, with hundreds of incidents reported over the last couple of days all over the UK. Very sad, indeed.
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"The Devonshires held this trench. The Devonshires hold it still " "One day I'll leave you, a phantom to lead you in the Summer, to join the Black Parade" |
#119
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Its going to happen.... it would have happened if "remain" won. The thugs from both sides will be equally involved..... lets hope the authorities get a grip of it quickly.
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#120
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Back Lash
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And so the backlash begins. Did any of us that voted out ever really believe that due democratic process would prevail if we were successful in winning the EU referendum? Today some two short days after the result was announced the forces of the remain side seem to be gathering strength and are it seems confident that the result of the referendum is, if they have their way, to be ignored. The labour party is in turmoil as I write with the wish it seems to return the party leadership to the Blairite fold thus going back to the default position that took over their party and which remains it seems entrenched in an anti-democratic federalist cause in line with those who presently hold the reins of power in Europe. The conservative party are in no less of a catastrophic state and offer little by way of comfort to those who view themselves as traditional true blue voters and even less by way of real opposition to the current march of federalist dissent. They are it seems as many of us have known for some time all in the same club. A club which supports what is nothing less than a continent wide dictatorship, intent on ruling us all under the yoke of their despotic system of government whilst anyone in opposition to this agenda is simply smeared as a racist or side-lined, as has been the case with those in our country who dared to make a stand and is now seemingly being rolled out wholesale by their refusal to accept the democratic mandate of the population who voted in favour of Brexit. We have witnessed a clever tactical moved by our prime minister who has employed a stalling block which prevents any real action in the short term, this being the requirement to invoke article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, thus leaving a chink that has quickly been exploited and now appears to be fast becoming a large festering sore, infected by those whose aim is nothing less to scupper the democratic process. In Europe though we have calls for us to get on with it so that we can be quickly and publicly punished and held up as a deterrent to those other countries whose populations have woken up to the fact that they live in a dictatorship and want out. Where does this leave us, a worrying question to which the answers may be too fearful to consider for many. We have marchers on the streets of London in protest of the result of the democratic process whilst it seems at the other end of the scale we have instances of the breakdown of public order in the form of racist attacks form those on the extremes of the right. This I fear as we will go on to see may be merely the tip of the iceberg. Should the vote to leave the EU be ignored or worse still reversed I can only imagine the dire consequences of the back lash that is surely to follow. The Genie as they say is well and truly out of the bottle. We face much uncertainty and potential turmoil, not least due to the fact that our choices of leadership on both sides of the usual political fence leave us with very little choice for change, real change, effective change that is desired and required by those of us who see through the mendacity of the collective stance of the British political elite. I fear that the only realistic option would be to call for the dissolution of parliament and the placing of the country into emergency measures for a term in order to shake the very life out of the current establishment and replace it with a system of true democracy, not one that sees the British public being stitched up by members of the same club albeit under the cloak of their respective colours. This though would mean yet more delay in regard to the urgent matter at hand which boils down to the question of our sovereignty which is the thing that is really at risk here, let alone some of our other honoured traditions. It is shame that in a constitutional monarchy our Royal Family seem to have no ultimate say on the question of our independence, they are though not our real rulers which in some ways is a shame, though I suspect that many of us don’t actually know where they stand in this matter given that they are derided by the dissenters if they speak publicly at all during such times of turmoil and on the other hand there has been a loss of faith in their perceived stance as upholders of our country’s institutions which have as we know been watered down, an example being that the monarch in this case our beloved Queen is no longer the defender of our country’s faith, instead being now defender of the faiths, which in reality equates to defender of no faith at all, or our traditions and history. I feel and fear that this may all end very badly for us here in Great Britain and that one way or another we have become involved in a struggle that may turn very ugly. A shame as that might be it is a struggle may prove necessary if we are to come out the other side with some form of democracy intact. Whether that sees us as an independent nation or indeed a United Kingdom, or not, remains to be seen. Dark forces are mobilising both within and without so pay attention and be ready for anything, as, if nothing else, things it seems may be about to get very interesting, indeed! Hopefully my last ramble in this thread. Ry
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“The homely British consummated the long and bitter duty by which, at the end of their epic insular history, they saved Europe by their example.” Lest we forget. Last edited by Charlie 585; 26-06-16 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Article 50 correction |
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