OSD full size collar badges

[Malcolm Davey]

When OSD badges were introduced in 1902 the collar badges were the same size as the cap badge.
When buying some people believe that because the badge is full size and has lugs it is a cap badge, this is not the case.
Now before anyone says oh yes they did,let me say that blades break and yes sometimes collars were worn as cap badges, but as a rule lugged osd badges are collar and not cap badges the only exception i know of this is Scottish badges as they are so big.
Below are a few examples of full size collars.

Cheers
Malc

[Malcolm Davey]

And some more,

Cheers
Malc

[Luke H]

Really nice badges, of super quality Malc well done.

To diverge slightly as I've spotted a Leinster. Has anyone seen an all brass Leinster where the innermost tips of the swallowtail on the ich dien scrolls connects to the tips of the 'LEINSTER' scroll? My uncle has one and I've not seen another example from this die ever.

Cheers,

Luke

[Peter Brydon]

Apologies,
I had second thoughts and decided this was not the thread for my question

Peter

[Malcolm Davey]

Originally Posted by Paddy McGinty

Really nice badges, of super quality Malc well done.

To diverge slightly as I've spotted a Leinster. Has anyone seen an all brass Leinster where the innermost tips of the swallowtail on the ich dien scrolls connects to the tips of the 'LEINSTER' scroll? My uncle has one and I've not seen another example from this die ever.

Cheers,

Luke

Any chance of getting a picture Luke
Cheers
Malc

[Luke H]

Hi Malc,

Luckly still have pics the dealer sent me in my inbox. It's one of my fave badges... tons of character and patina (any ideas how to get that stain off without taking off the patina btw? someone told me ketchup)

Cheers,

Luke

[Peter Brydon]

Picture of Kings Liverpool officer wearing OSD cap and collars
P.B.

[KLR]

Peter,
If you look at the sizes carefully, this chap is actually wearing a collar badge in his cap too (variant collar cf Churchill no 232).
In this case the collars WERE smaller than the cap badge.
Julian

[Cardiffbloke]

Yes indeed, even in the Cav..... This pic is off a section of a sealed pattern card in the Regt'l Archive Room. It reads "Service Cap and Service Jacket Collar Badge". This badge has loops and is the larger variant. The card was sealed 11th Feb 1904. The large badge was however short lived and fairly soon after the Bays went on to wear the smaller collar OSD Bz with the larger cap badge which by then had blades. Eventually that too went 'West' and they adopted a smaller cap badge with blades to compliment the smaller collar badge with loops.
Common belief is that the blades version was the cap and the loops the collar and that is true enough..... But! i can tell you that in the museum uniform archive, we have jackets with blade collars and hats with loops.... Like all soldiers they used what they had to hand.... bless em!

[John Mulcahy]

Luke

your Leinster variants also occurs with the OSD Collar, with the version where the motto scrolls touch the title scroll having loops N&S and the one where it does not having loops E&W

[Peter Brydon]

Julian,
Having looked at the photo more carefully you are right in that the badge has the horse on a torse rather than on a ground, as you might remember I have a picture of a full dress cap worn by a member of the 4th V.B with a silver and gilt version of this badge ( as on attached photo ) I have asked the curent owner of the cap for some further photos.

I wonder if the chap in the photo I posted above might be a Volunteer or Territorial ? I think it is safe to asssume that this badge has loops rather than blades.

This does bring a new dimension to the " discussion" currently going on about OSD cap and collars and blades and lugs ( loops )

The fascination of the hobby is that you can never say anything with 100% certainty because there are always exceptions,we have discussed the Home Guard field service cap in the Asley collection where the original owner just painted the bi metal Kings other ranks badge with a bronze paint when he became an officer.

In a wider context if you just collect badges which were worn on headgear ( I am avoiding using the term cap badge ) then the field is probably much wider than most would think.Professor Charles Thomas had an article in an old MHS Bulletin on badges worn on the field service cap when the normal cap badge was too big for wear in that headdress,unfortunaltly I cannot locate the article at the moment.

Peter

P.S. You would think that in the computer age with the ability to scan documents into an editable format someone would have produced a full index to the MHS Bulletins

[KLR]

Peter, There are many examples of collar badges worn in the FSC - many being "official" - they are listed in ACD vol 7. David Linaker wrote a detailed article about the first FSC badges in Crown Imperial 2004.
Collar badges were also worn unofficially in the "cap" at many later periods (I had it from one ex Kings officer that they wore OSD collars in their berets).
Regarding other details, I'll write to you separately.

[jeanpit-frenchy]

below 2 pictures (for the sizes of items!!)

1st cap badge of border regiment (slidered )and the second, a item i think it's a cast officier collar badges (loops) know in their days as "soup plates!"

when i buy the second (only photo of the front ) in think it is a economie cap badge,but when i received it ...... loops ....

a nice cast collar badge but i need now to found a second to make matched pairs.....

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Luke

your Leinster variants also occurs with the OSD Collar, with the version where the motto scrolls touch the title scroll having loops N&S and the one where it does not having loops E&W

Thanks John, it's always nice to have stuff confirmed by fellow collectors

Luke

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by jeanpit-frenchy

when i buy the second (only photo of the front ) in think it is a economie cap badge,but when i received it ...... loops ....

Jeanpit,

There was no Border Regt economy issue of badges from WW1 or any other badge made entirely out of white metal for that matter inc: RWK, RI Rifles, Rifle Brigade, DLI, all the WM scots etc.

Cheers,

Luke