Early upper lugs RA

[grenadierguardsman]

GTB, i believe these grenade's are mentioned in Dress Regs 1900 and 1904.
Andy

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by GTB

Thanks for that. K&K misled me re no mention of the GG/RMA type grenade badge in gilding metal for regular Artillery.

GTB

True, oddly enough they do mention the white-metal version as worn on the forage cap by volunteers as K&K 838.

Also mentioned in both versions of 'The Dress of the Royal Artillery' by Major Duncan Alastair Campbell.

Rgds, Thomas.

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

OK, what did take place instead then? Surely the looped badges are considered early/Edwardian, suggesting later badges didn't come with loops?

Rgds, Thomas.

Thomas,

In Post 2 you said loops were introduced in 1902 and replaced in 1903 by long sliders.

That didnt happen.

Loops on RA cap badges remained well beyond the advent of long sliders on Infantry badges and past 1908 as evidenced on many TF laurel spray scroll badges, Oxford University OTC etc.

I do not know when sliders were officially introduced on RA cap badges, if at all, but the progression from loops to long slider to short slider was not a path that the RA cap badge followed.

regards

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

GTB, i believe these grenade's are mentioned in Dress Regs 1900 and 1904.
Andy

The large Grenadier style grenade is in Dress Regs 1900 as puggaree badge Royal Artillery, the OR's grenade isn't as the dress regs only describe officers dress. By 1904 both were already replaced by the gun badge, so you'll be looking in vain there.

Rgds, Thomas.

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Thomas,

In Post 2 you said loops were introduced in 1902 and replaced in 1903 by long sliders.

That didnt happen.

Loops on RA cap badges remained well beyond the advent of long sliders on Infantry badges and past 1908 as evidenced on many TF laurel spray scroll badges, Oxford University OTC etc.

I do not know when sliders were officially introduced on RA cap badges, if at all, but the progression from loops to long slider to short slider was not a path that the RA cap badge followed.

regards

Thank you Simon, good to know and I've amended my notes accordingly.

rgds, Thomas.

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

The large Grenadier style grenade is in Dress Regs 1900 as puggaree badge Royal Artillery, the OR's grenade isn't as the dress regs only describe officers dress. By 1904 both were already replaced by the gun badge, so you'll be looking in vain there.

Rgds, Thomas.

Yes i should have said Officers only.
Andy

[GTB]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Yes i should have said Officers only.
Andy

Thanks, all. Very Worthwhile information.

I am aware that Dress Regs apply exclusively to Officers, but never any harm in mentioning all snippets - sometimes a missing link is brought to light! I recall an article that I came across many years ago concerning grenade badges - I think it hailed from a "Bulletin" issue. I'll try and root it out.

GTB

[Alan O]

I would point out that the 1903 lugs to sliders and then 1906 long to short sliders only applied to Regular army badges and even then there were exceptions.

The TF (later on and the Pals) were provisioned for by the TF Assns so did not have to follow this direction.

I would be surprised if the Regular pattern RA badges had not followed the ACD instructions in 1903 and 1906.

[manchesters]

Alan,

Point taken over TF badges etc.

But as for regulars dont forget the badge was only introduced in 1902 and had loops. It is unlikely that within a year they would even need to produce more badges and I have found no evidence of long slidered badges. I have seen sliders of varying lengths depending on manufacturer but none that are considerable enough to class as 'Long' If they were in use for 3 years there would be a lot more about.

Bearing in mind what you said about TF badges it is therefore possible that the short slider was adopted in 1906 on regular badges.

regards

[Alan O]

Without seeing the tender documents it's impossible to date the actual issue but you are right that old pattern stocks would be used up before any more were ordered. It may have been later even than 1906.

[GTB]

Originally Posted by GTB

Thanks, all. Very Worthwhile information.

I am aware that Dress Regs apply exclusively to Officers, but never any harm in mentioning all snippets - sometimes a missing link is brought to light! I recall an article that I came across many years ago concerning grenade badges - I think it hailed from a "Bulletin" issue. I'll try and root it out.

GTB

Bulletin in question for November 1977.

GTB

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by GTB

Bulletin in question for November 1977.

GTB

Doesn't seem relevant as neither the universal collar/shoulder grenade nor the Grenadier guards style grenade are featured in the article.

Rgds, Thomas.

[GTB]

Purely to complement what had previously been written concerning gm / wm plain ball grenades.

GTB

[54Bty]

See: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=59672

Marc

[Frank Kelley]

I tend to agree, I think it is inconceivable that badges issued in 1902 were all recalled and new badges issued in the following year.

Originally Posted by Alan O

Without seeing the tender documents it's impossible to date the actual issue but you are right that old pattern stocks would be used up before any more were ordered. It may have been later even than 1906.