Artillery............the Gun badge

[Alan O]

I have had the odd k/c beret badge (1947-53) with lugs as well as a slider. The lugs looked original but it has been suggested that the soliders had them added to prevent the badge falling out of the beret so easily.

Alan

[dragonz18]

Alan,
am sure that this is indeed the reason( & period also).
I have it on a Gilt KC beret badge. And have seen others also.
Have not seen it on an O/R's beret badge yet.

It looks as if the restriker of the London badge got his wires crossed for a while ,with what is essentually a pre WW1 badge ,there.

Cheers !
Steve

[Alan O]

On the subject of lugs the early badges are often faked with 3 lugs where as all the original ones I have seen have 2 horozontial lugs at the centre of the badge rather than the 3 on the edges.

Alan

[dragonz18]

Alan,
many thanks for your post. You may well be correct on the 3 lug varieties,though many origional Victorian issue badges have this feature & I've assumed that this may also have been carried through to some of the early KC badges as well ? I probably should not have refered to the 'West Riding' restrike as being a more 'normal' type of fixing there. My appologies. Generally I avoid them, the 2 lugs indeed being more correct,for the British versions, anyway, though I do have a couple, but they have had later replacement lugs affixed.
Also this feature regularly occurs on many WW1 & after ,Australian & NZ, etc. versions,at least. One that I have, has a nice & unusual 'J.R.Gaunt & Son Ltd London' plate also. ??
Will attempt to illustrate these more fully, at a future time.


Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

Must be the future time I mentioned..........

Pics to illustrate my wordage here.This is definitely not meant to be any vindication of the 3 lugs, etc ,being OK, as I tend to agree with Alan's thoughts on this. Just some exceptions, etc, as mentioned above.

(Part 1 of 2)
1. Gilt KC beret with slider & lugs combined, front
2. Back pic of same ,actually made like this by Gaunts
3. NZ back only pic,3 lugs & nice Gaunt tablet, Britsh made version

[dragonz18]

(Part 2 of 2)

4. Victorian RDF ,to illustrate older 3 lugs variety, back only
5. Silver Officer's 3 blades broken off ,replaced by 3 lugs, front
6. back pic of same ( Note...separate wheel attached by pins to sides ,rather than more usual central fixing.RH back side has also broken off here )

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

Some more Beret sized badges.........

1. KC ,brass ,slider marked Firmin London
2. QC, brass , blank slider
3. QC, w/m , blank slider
4. QC, a/a , slider marked J.R.Gaunt London

Cheers !
Steve

[Eddie Parks]

Originally Posted by dragonz18

...combination of slider & lugs to the back.
This is a feature that I've only ever seen on Officer's Beret badges (approx WW2 period).

When I was commissioned in 1968 I had to buy a beret from Herbert Johnson. The badge was QC, gilt and had both slider and lugs. As soon as i reached a regiment I had then to buy an embroidered wire badge.

Eddie

[Eddie Parks]

Here's one that's a bit different.

This is the Sultan of Oman's Artillery, clearly based on the British gun badge but Omanized.

When I commanded 8 Battery, SOA in 1980 I had 12 hallmarked silver badges made for the officers and WOs. They were made by a goldsmith in Northern Ireland and were very smart indeed. This is one of them.

It was worn on a red beret (RMP shade) with a blue patch behind the badge. 35mm X 35mm

Eddie

[dragonz18]

Eddie,
welcome to the forum.
Nice to have an artilleryman in the ranks here.
So a QC gilt version also exists for Officers with slider & Lugs, another one to look out for. I wonder how long this arrangement continued for then?
That Oman one is a nice item, but with only 12 made ,that's got to make it a very rare piece indeed.Thanks for showing it. What type was worn by the OR's,then ?

Cheers !
Steve

PS: from information received, it looks like the period of time for the 'Australia' version, shown earlier ,was 1930-42 with a blackened version also ,being worn from 1938-42.

[Eddie Parks]

Hello Steve,

I don't think Off's QC gilt beret badges lasted very long after 1968. I never saw anyone wear one at any rate. I don't have mine anymore. Wasn't very interested then.

As far as I know none of the silver SOA badges have escaped onto the open market. They are hallmarked (very, very small) on the back of one of the swords (saifs). They also have four loops on the ends of the swords and on the original the loops were at the end of the scroll. The silver ones had rather skinny silver split pins. I had them made with four shortish loops because the originals had two very long loops and used to flop about on the beret. They cost £5 each to make in 1980. And no I don't have any spare!

The standard version was white metal and the only way you could tell when worn was that in the silver version the colour was richer and that on the original the gun wheel had an obvious rim. These were worn by all ranks except in 8 Bty.

Eddie

[54Bty]

May I ask where the information that RA Bandsmen wear a white metal Cap Badge came from please?

Also I thought that those 'gun' badges with three lugs were for the pouch not the cap.

[Eddie Parks]

Bandsmen do not currently wear a whitemetal cap badge, they may have worn one in the past but somehow I doubt it.

And yes I've also always thought that three lug badges were pouch not cap.

Eddie

[dragonz18]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Guys!
It would seem that Information received by me, from several sources,in the past, may be in error here?
Though this is certainly a common enough reason for w/m varieties in many other regular Regts.(& also used by some NCO's, Regimental Police & the like,as well, there.)
In many of the Dominion countries(certainly here in NZ) this was the reason & our regulations usually tended to follow the UK fairly closely?
Is there a correct answer then ?
Still ,we are all here to learn ,so any better ( especially printed ?) info. would be be most appreciated.

With the 3 lugs,as said before ,this was ,& is still ,a common enough style with many commonwealth Cap badges.
Most of the older genuine Pouch badges that I've seen ,have had screw post fixings (including a KC Gilt Artillery one) Though admit I have recently seen both types on the more modern Horse Guards examples.

Looking forward to finding some answers here, that will enlarge our understanding of a very complex hobby!

Cheers !
Steve

[Malcolm Davey]

Hi Chaps
Thought i would put up my officers Gilt badges for you to see, the cap badge has 2 lugs.

Cheers
Malc