Oakham School CCF Collar badge, Rutland (Leics)

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Just to add to what Chris has said....... the LDYPAO "F" Squadron ACF wear the insignia of the LDYPAO. All of their items are made locally by a company that can copy the original badge and then reproduce them. All of these badges have the pin and clasp fitting and come in either white or yellow metal. The cadet Officers will "paint" the badges with a silver paint to get the contrasting colour. None of these badges are made officially...... but they are all worn "Officially"

Hi Griff,

That is quite interesting - thanks for posting it.

Regards

Chris

[ncc]

oakham school cadets are affiliated to the royal anglian regt. and the raf. and wear the badge of the anglian regiment or the raf badge.
pre 1964 they were affiliated to the leicestershire regt.
and wore the badge of the regiment.
i have lived for many years 100yrds from this school and have never seen this badge before.
it could have been a collar to differentiate between uppingham sch. and oakham sch. who are affiliated to the same regiment but it should be a common badge if a collar.
more research needed.
they seem to be turning up pretty regular at the moment perhaps someone raided the stores.
Bob

[bess55]

Originally Posted by ncc

oakham school cadets are affiliated to the royal anglian regt. and the raf. and wear the badge of the anglian regiment or the raf badge.
pre 1964 they were affiliated to the leicestershire regt.
and wore the badge of the regiment.
i have lived for many years 100yrds from this school and have never seen this badge before.
it could have been a collar to differentiate between uppingham sch. and oakham sch. who are affiliated to the same regiment but it should be a common badge if a collar.
more research needed.
they seem to be turning up pretty regular at the moment perhaps someone raided the stores.
Bob

Thanks Bob - I just cant recall where I read the information about the badge being a collar. I'm sure it was a quote from a guy who was something to do with the school staff or an adult instructor in the cadets at Oakham school, it must have been from some years ago though as he (as supported by your post) stated that the cadets wore the Leics Regt cap badge - and from memory stated that the 'Oakham' badge was a collar.

As you quite rightly say, more research required perhaps . . .

Many thanks all

Bess

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Oakham School CCF
Just showing the cap badge.....

Its definately a collar badge. The school archives record its introduction as a collar and their CCF history states their unique use of it as a collar.

The school wore its school crest as a badge until 1929, then a Leicestershire Tiger with Oakham scroll, the Royal Leicester cap badge, Royal Anglian and now RLC.

https://www.oakham.rutland.sch.uk/up...20(19.5MB).pdf

'In 1947 the Contingent was granted the privilege of wearing collar badges – a Rutland horseshoe encircling a small sprig of oak leaves and an acorn above a silver scroll inscribed Oakham.'

[Peter Brydon]

If only this sort of history was available for all cadet units !!!

P.B.

[bess55]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

If only this sort of history was available for all cadet units !!!

P.B.

Here here!

Many thanks Alan, I knew I'd heard it right somewhere. It is slightly curious that more do not turn up, but it would depend how many were initially made and if they were recycled over years through the school perhaps. And of course, perhaps they are kept as treasured souvenirs

Kind regards all

Bess

[2747andy]

I'm not going to immediately consign the anodised example in my collection to the collar draw! The date quoted, unless I've missed it elsewhere refers to a period before anodised was even introduced!

The Royal Anglian cap badge, despite belonging to a fine Regiment is probably on a list of one to one hundred of the British Army's most inspired cap badge designs, is probably somewhere in the ten thousands?

From the 50/60's to present date it is unlikely that cadet units whether public school or ACF have had any huge quantity of uniforms upon which collar badges would have been worn?

I would be tempted to do more research before tagging this as a collar badge rather than a badge introduced for wear in the beret in place of a boring Star thingy with a sandcastle stuck to it!

Andy

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

I'm not going to immediately consign the anodised example in my collection to the collar draw! The date quoted, unless I've missed it elsewhere refers to a period before anodised was even introduced!

The Royal Anglian cap badge, despite belonging to a fine Regiment is probably on a list of one to one hundred of the British Army's most inspired cap badge designs, is probably somewhere in the ten thousands?

From the 50/60's to present date it is unlikely that cadet units whether public school or ACF have had any huge quantity of uniforms upon which collar badges would have been worn?

I would be tempted to do more research before tagging this as a collar badge rather than a badge introduced for wear in the beret in place of a boring Star thingy with a sandcastle stuck to it!

Andy

A very quick top of the head here, Tonbridge school wore anodised collars ,a similar badge to the cap badge. Apart from that ,I cant think of one.

[badjez]

I am told that a very limited number of badges (TEN) of this design were made to an officer's standard, but I have yet to handle one.

Stephen.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

I'm not going to immediately consign the anodised example in my collection to the collar draw! The date quoted, unless I've missed it elsewhere refers to a period before anodised was even introduced!

The Royal Anglian cap badge, despite belonging to a fine Regiment is probably on a list of one to one hundred of the British Army's most inspired cap badge designs, is probably somewhere in the ten thousands?

From the 50/60's to present date it is unlikely that cadet units whether public school or ACF have had any huge quantity of uniforms upon which collar badges would have been worn?

I would be tempted to do more research before tagging this as a collar badge rather than a badge introduced for wear in the beret in place of a boring Star thingy with a sandcastle stuck to it!

Andy

Andy

The school history is quite clear with photos for OTC, JTC and CCF showing the lineage of cap badges from 1900's to present day. The only use was as a collar despite what a certain a/a paperback book may say. There are photos of the collar in use in the 1960s. See School Band in Battledress in 1965 on Page 105 and parade in 1965 on P155. The wear seems to be confined to Offrs SD and cadets on parades as there are lots of exercise and trg photos without them. This is the CCF history which includes and supplements the previous pdf I linked to above:

https://www.oakham.rutland.sch.uk/up...t%20(45MB).pdf

It's very comprehenise and as it covers the CFF year by year, quite conclusive. The photos from the late '60s show the Leicestershire tiger was still in use and by 1970 the Royal Anglian badge and beret with backing cloth are in use.

Alan

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Andy

The school history is quite clear with photos for OTC, JTC and CCF showing the lineage of cap badges from 1900's to present day. The only use was as a collar despite what a certain a/a paperback book may say. There are photos of the collar in use in the 1960s. See School Band in Battledress in 1965 on Page 105 and parade in 1965 on P155. The wear seems to be confined to Offrs SD and cadets on parades as there are lots of exercise and trg photos without them. This is the CCF history which includes and supplements the previous pdf I linked to above:

https://www.oakham.rutland.sch.uk/up...t%20(45MB).pdf

It's very comprehenise and as it covers the CFF year by year, quite conclusive. The photos from the late '60s show the Leicestershire tiger was still in use and by 1970 the Royal Anglian badge and beret with backing cloth are in use.

Alan

Er, I have to put my hand up here too.

ACF/CCF badges are almost impossible to verify as being officially authorised for issue from official documentation as very little paperwork exists verifying the acceptance of such badges by the authorities.

An example that does exist, which I quote in my book, (however, not made in A/A but the procedure still stands) was for the King Edward’s Five Ways School, Birmingham. This badge design (shown on page 178 as an image that I took from the original sketch) was finally granted on 20th June 1955 by the Director of Ordnance Services as fulfilling CCF Regulations, Section VIII Para 579. Such doco though is quite rare and this was the only full example I could find on the authorisation of a CCF badge even after weeks of searching through the National Archives, Kew, London.

Therefore, anyone who wishes to document the existence of CCF badges needs to give the benefit of doubt to a great many pieces out there as I also did with the Oakham School CCF. However, if one could look at the school's CCF archives from say 1950 onwards then photographic evidence should clarify this badge's position. Can anyone do this - it would be much better that a he said/she said argument.

A further issue is that many so called CCF A/A pieces are not actually anodised alumnium although even experienced collectors swear blind that they are. If a closer look is made they are seen to be of a thinner tin like alloy usually manufactured by die stamping instead of impression cold die forging as per A/A pieces.

re: paperback book - if anyone wants one I am selling here on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2012585755...84.m1555.l2649

Regards

Chreis

[Alan O]

Chris

Unfortunately unlike Oakham very few school's have archivists, such a thorough history of their Cadet forces or even records. I have approached a number of schools as part of my research into OTCs. Some have been more able to help than others but in too many cases either the school has closed, the cadet force is no more or records are non existent. However with the photographic evidence provided by the Oakham archivist's work in this case I think I can be quite certain that this is a collar.

If you go to the OTC Corrections to K&K thread which is pinned in the OTC section, I have listed all known bespoke school CCF badges in current use with photos of their use in this decade and links to the school websites where available. As you say most are not a/a but anodised metal, chrome or just shiny gilding metal.

Alan

[Peter Brydon]

I know an officer in St. Marys College Crosby CCF,( he is also a keen collector ).The unit is currently affiliated to The Parachute Regiment.

I know from Regimental magazines and other sources that the unit was affiliated to the Liverpool Irish in the late 1940`s and later affiliated to the Royal Tank Regiment.

My acquaintance has made enquiries at the school but has been unable to find anything about the unit at the time of these earlier affiliations and this I think is fairly typical.

I have also made enquiries with Old Boys Associations about the CCF units and their insignia in the Liverpool Schools which no longer exist ( Liverpool Collegiate, Liverpool Institute and Waterloo Grammar School ) with limited and/or no success so I can well appreciate what Alan says.

P.B.

( I came across this illustration of a title to a Liverpool School cadet
unit yesterday which I had not previously noticed )