I.D. please

[CftD]

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

It appears in the Edwardian Gaunt catalogue; unfortunately I don't have a copy of the accompanying price list, which might indicate whom it was for.
Rob.

Rob - I too have the catalogue but no price list - frustrating isn't it ? However, the copy I have seen doesn't attribute the numbered item and simply quotes the price per gross (for buttons). If your catalogue is the same as mine then it dates to about 1904 and we were supplying Turkey (and, indeed Germany) at that time so no surprise to find a Turkish button in a British catalogue. David

[Peter Brydon]

For those who thought Rob and I were hallucinating,here is what we were probably thinking about when we thought of Berkshire when we saw the button.

British Army Collar Badges 1881 to The Present by Churchill and Westlake No 82 Berkshire Yeomanry.

P.B.

[CftD]

Peter - I think now everyone will see the difference - Turkish - a star within a crescent. Berkshire - a crescent surmounted by a star. The button is - in my personal view - a Turkish armed forces pattern - Ottoman Guard. David

[Peter Brydon]

As indeed I did when I found what I was looking for.

P.B.

[ebro]

Hi,
The Berkshire star is 6 point, the Turkish star has 5 points. I would think it is a Turkish button.
Eddie

[btns]

Here is a British button: a six pointed star over a crescent.
Are you guys sure your Berkshire Yeomanry badge was not commissioned as a Portsmouth Tram driver's badge?

[btns]

Here is a link to the Portsmouth Tramways:
http://www.birches.plus.com/page148/...0/page220.html

The star & crescent are always displayed on a coat of arms.

[4966Ian]

Hi there,

I don't think the button showed above by BTNS is Portsmouth related. I think it could be Hungerford Council or Hungerford related.

Usually Portsmouth related insignia have an '8' pointed star. Whereas, Hungerford (Berkshire Yeomanry) insignia have '6' pointed stars.

Having spoken with the Berkshire Yeomanry Museum in the past, they can find no reference to a '5' pointed star being used by the Berkshire Yeomanry on any insignia. There is a reference to a "5" pointed star over a crescent on a Sabretache supposedly belonging to the Berkshire Yeomanry (Carmen's book on Sabretaches). But this is a mistake, which has been subsequently been repeated in other books/Auction catalogues.

From memory, I think the '5' pointed star and crescent has been used by the Turkish, Egyptian, Indian and latterly Pakistan armed forces.

Though I am more than happy to be proved wrong, if anyone does have proof of the 5 pointed star being used by the Berkshire Yeomanry.

Cheers

Ian

[btns]

Originally Posted by 4966Ian

Hi there,

I don't think the button showed above by BTNS is Portsmouth related. I think it could be Hungerford Council or Hungerford related.

Ian

Ian,
I agree, it must be Hungerford Council or Fire Service.
thank you.

[andrewfrench]

Hi all The Berks Yeo had a 6 pointed star and crescent originating from the arms of the bourough of Hungerford. As regards the missing troop, I have never heard this. Can you are anyone rovide fuller details.
regards
Andrew
(Asst Hon Curator Berks Yeo Museum)

[Peter Brydon]

Can I please get this into perspective. I bought a couple of buttons and something about one rang a bell in the back of my mind as it did with Sonofacqms.

I am more than happy with the indentification ( and have never been otherwise ) that the button is a Turkish Army one made by Gaunts.

After looking though a number of sources what I had incorrectly remembered was the different, but similar, design of the Berkshire Yeomanry bronze collar badge in Westlake and Churchills collar badge book No 82 on page 23.

P.B.

[4966Ian]

Sorry Peter and anybody else,

I wasn't 'having a go' at the various identifications. I was just trying to clarify that as yet, there is no proof that the "5" pointed star and crescent is used by the Berkshire Yeomanry. Though it is an often repeated mistake amongst dealers/auction houses/collectors etc. and having myself bought numerous items over the years with a "5" pointed star & crescent on assurances that it was Berkshire related, I didn't want anyone else to make costly mistakes like I did.
In addition we were then able to confirm that the 8 pointed star and crescent was Portsmouth related.

Sorry if you thought we hijacked your post, it just seemed logical to carry on with the discussions/identifications once the link had been made, so in future anybody searching the forum gets all the answers in one post.

Cheers

Ian

[Peter Brydon]

Ian,

No problem, if a thread leads into a wider discussion that can only be to the benefit of Forum members.

I would be surprised if Ray Westlake and Colin Churchill had both got it wrong with the badge they both identified as a Berkshire Yeomanry collar badges but non of us are infallable. Is this a collar worn throughout the regiment ( presumably by officers ? ) or just used by one squadron ?.

It will be interesting to see what else this thread produces now there appears to be a consensus about the button.

Peter

[4966Ian]

Sorry Peter, I am not sure what your point is about Churchill & Westlake's book.

Apart from the first few posts, where there was some confusion about the button's identity, I thought there was agreement that the 5 pointed star and crescent button you showed was indeed Turkish. We then just went on to identify why it wasn't a Berkshire Yeomanry button, as the Berkshire Yeomanry and the Hungerford Town Arms used a 6 pointed star above a crescent, whilst Portsmouth Council etc. used an 8 pointed star above a crescent.

Though strangely enough the Berkshire Yeomanry never used the star & crescent device on it's buttons.

I don't think anyone was disputing that the 6 pointed star above a crescent (Fig 82 in Churchill & Westlakes book on collar badges and also shown in your earlier posts - also see my photo below) is the collar badge of the Berkshire Yeomanry. (Please Note: This collar badge came in : Hall-marked silver, silvered, Gilt, Bronze, Chrome, White Metal and Brass (G/M)). As I understand it, this pattern collar badge was used by all ranks.

(N.B. The Berkshire Yeomanry also used the Chalk White Horse device above a "Berkshire" scroll (Fig. 81 in the book) in facing pairs as collar badges as well).

Sorry if I have missed or mis-read something in the posts.

Cheers

Ian