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  #1  
Old 24-10-15, 03:13 PM
milcollectorblue milcollectorblue is offline
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Default 32 Company South African Labour Contingent

OK - before everyone throws up their arms in despair and asks, "why is this posted in the Canadian Corps, Branches and RCA section?", read on...

Attached is a photo showing a die-struck cap badge that measures 37mm tall x 34mm wide in browning brass, maker marked "TIPTAFT / B'HAM" that I can find nothing about. It is exactly the same design as the 24th Bn CEF, i.e. it is a Canadian maple leaf, only this badge has a 'South African Labour Contingent' legend.

I am aware of various publications relating to the different types of Labour Corps used during both WW1 and WW2, including a tome of over 1,000 pages on just the Chinese Labour Corps (CLC) - a real labour of love!

Early thoughts are that during WW1 these foreign labourers were used in various capacities for 'grunt' work, but invariably not in the front lines. POWs, Eastern Europeans, Russian prisoners and Portuguese were the preferred workers in Northern France as it was well known that the SA Native Labour Contingent (SANLC) suffered severely from the cold. It is believed that the Canadians encouraged esprit-de-corps to their coloured troops by providing badges for the labourers of the 32nd Company.

That being said, the 32nd (Forestry) Company started operations at Dreux, some 60 kms West of Paris on June 19th 1917. This was also at the time when the Canadian government started to fund CEF badges made by TIPTAFT, and so this particular cap badge may well have been paid for out of Bn funds, fully supported by the lumber industry, at the request of the CO, i.e. in exactly the same way in which many of the other CEF Bn badges were paid for.

Whilst there may be some form of tenuous link by searching through the various regimental block numbers for the Forestry Drafts, that would certainly take a very long time and without any possibility of a certain outcome.

I therefore throw this open to Forum members who may well have come across something more tangible in the form of print to add reality to my (and others) supposition.

I look forward to seeing how Forum members respond

Lovat
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  #2  
Old 24-10-15, 07:45 PM
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Traist Traist is offline
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Hi, Well this most definitely a very unusual badge. I am intrigued by it. At this point, I only have a title, SANLC, in my collection and was unaware that this badge even existed. I am very curious to see what else comes up regarding this badge. Regards Andrew
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  #3  
Old 26-10-15, 11:27 PM
redman redman is offline
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Hi lovat,
Fascinating badge. I saw one of these several years ago at a fair.
Just a question why do you attribute this 32nd company as forestry, is that a fact?
I think this South african labour company was attached to a canadian division or the canadian corps, it may even have had canadian white officers transferred in to command, as I understand many of the original white South african officers that came with these units were encouraged to join fighting battalion on arrival to western front. Which would explain the maple leaf design.

If forestry also understandable as the canadian forestry corps was substantial. Not sure why Tiptaft would use the 24 th battalion as template though if forestry?? As Tiptaft made some of the other canadian forestry unit badges.

Is that a Tiptaft disc in the rear of the badge? A little unclear in the pictures.

Fascinating
Dan
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  #4  
Old 27-10-15, 05:56 AM
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If either of you turn up another one of these, I would really like to add it to my collection. Please bear me in mind. Regards Andrew
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  #5  
Old 27-10-15, 09:48 AM
milcollectorblue milcollectorblue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redman View Post
Hi lovat,

Just a question why do you attribute this 32nd company as forestry, is that a fact?
I think this South african labour company was attached to a canadian division or the canadian corps, it may even have had canadian white officers transferred in to command, as I understand many of the original white South african officers that came with these units were encouraged to join fighting battalion on arrival to western front. Which would explain the maple leaf design.

If forestry also understandable as the canadian forestry corps was substantial. Not sure why Tiptaft would use the 24 th battalion as template though if forestry?? As Tiptaft made some of the other canadian forestry unit badges.

Is that a Tiptaft disc in the rear of the badge? A little unclear in the pictures.

Fascinating
Dan
Dan,

I have never seen one of the badges before, and neither has my colleague who has been a Canadian militaria dealer for over 30 years. So my advice to you is that if you ever come across another one of these at a militaria fair the chances are the person selling the badge will not know anything about it; snap it up and bag yourself a bargain!! At the moment, and until I hear differently, this appears to be a 'unique' badge, possibly made as a specimen and/or trial cap badge for internal approval by the CO/OC of the unit. To the very best of my knowledge it was never 'Approved', despite it having a makers mark on the back.

Everything about this badge is an "educated guess", but it is based on the knowledge that SA labourers did work alongside the Forestry Corps. My colleague and I had also explored the possibility of ex-pat South Africans being recruited to serve alongside the CEF either in Canada or in the UK; however, we can find no evidence to support either this thought process or even the original supposition in my initial post. By extending it to a much wider audience I was hoping to see if there was anyone out there who was able to fill-in the blank spaces......

It does have a Tiptaft oval disc on the back of the badge. And you're right to point out that Tiptaft did produce a number of the Forestry Coy cap badges (i.e. the General Service, the 224th and 238th Inf Bn, and the 12th, 50th and 70th Company cap badges), but 'maybe' the rather long legend on this badge lent itself more easily to being applied to the 24th Inf Bn cap badge, which was also manufactured by Tiptaft. But then I'm guessing again

Lovat
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  #6  
Old 27-10-15, 12:44 PM
cefguy cefguy is offline
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All:
OK as a relative newcomer to this field of collecting I clearly don't know enough about the 24th Btn badge. I have to ask about the crown on the 24th badge. All of the examples I have seen on this forum, Babin, Charlton etc have what I would refer to as the "Queens" crown on them. That is to say the model of the crown currently in use today. This 32nd Company SALC has what I would refer to as the "Kings" crown on it, although the overall pattern of the badge clearly resembles that of the 24th cap badge. Was the pattern of the CEF's 24th badge carried over from pre WW1, and if so what unit? Was this pattern perpetuated in a post WW1 unit hanging onto the badge design? I find the 32nd CSALC badge a very interesting one and, in my limited experience, the one with the correct crown on it.
Thank you
Don
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  #7  
Old 27-10-15, 08:12 PM
redman redman is offline
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Hi
Well spotted about the crown. Definitely kings crown.
As I understand it the South African labour contingent was started to be withdrawn from the western front before the war ended. I can not see any reason for it to continue post war.
Hi lovat do you actually own this badge or can handle it?

I have had a brief look at the war graves commission website for casualties to the South African native labour corps/ contingent. I have found sa labourers dying and being buried on the same day and in the same cemeteries as members of several CEF fighting battalions. I realise with the process of the war and burials post war that bodies were brought together for burial, but also it does suggest some sa labourers died with or near the front line and in the canadian sector. Does indicate some sa labour companies were affiliated with cef units.

All the best
Dan
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  #8  
Old 27-10-15, 09:21 PM
loupie1961 loupie1961 is offline
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Beg your pardon. You have mentioned Russian POWs: as a matter of fact, Russians were allied to the British Dominion of Canada, during WWI. I guess you were hinting to PoWs caught after 1918?
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  #9  
Old 27-10-15, 09:32 PM
milcollectorblue milcollectorblue is offline
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Dan,

SALC affiliation with CEF (Forestry) units - that is my supposition.

And yes, I do own the badge. The crowns are different but the remaining layout of the badge is almost a copy of the 24th Bn cap badge; the scrolls are in exactly the same place, and the badges are also exactly the same size.

Lovat
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  #10  
Old 28-10-15, 11:58 PM
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A clarification. The Canadian Corps was a corps with an order of battle including Canadian units and on occasion some British or other Dominion or colonial troops. The Canadian Forestry Corps (and some other Canadian units, like the Canadian Railway Troops and some Canadian Engineers units) were under BEF control; they were assets of the army command, not the Cdn Corps. The Cdn Corps did not have CFC units under their command.
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  #11  
Old 31-10-15, 09:19 PM
redman redman is offline
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Hi lovat,
It has occurred to me whether this badge was really an officer badge?!?
As such private purchase from Tiptaft.
Would badges really be issued to labourers?
I can see officers of some of these units would want a badge for there uniform.
My great grandfather served in the RE on the light railways and the photos of him and others at their daily work near the front wearing work fatigues, no badges at all.
So would native labourers really be badged?

Lovat, there is a thread about these early Tiptaft disks on Cef badges.
Do you have others with this disk?

All the best Dan
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  #12  
Old 01-11-15, 01:21 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Most interesting! I have done some research on 37th (Forestry) Company, a Second World War unit of the South African Engineer Corps and as part of that discovered that some SANLC were involved in forestry activities in the First World War. I managed to find some photographs in the Archives in Cape Town a few years ago of SANLC in France. The 'European' officer was wearing UK General List collar badges. Some officers wore UK General List cap badges and others South African Infantry cap badges. The 'Native labourers' were all wearing great coats and slouch hats. I could not make out any form of hat badge on the slouch hats. I would love to find out more about the 32nd Company and this badge!

Photo of two European officers and Native labourers.
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File Type: jpg Capt Young and SANLC in France.jpg (54.3 KB, 32 views)

Last edited by milhistry; 01-11-15 at 03:49 AM. Reason: Photo added
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  #13  
Old 01-11-15, 03:51 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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King George V inspecting SANLC in France (IWM Photo)
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  #14  
Old 11-02-16, 02:56 PM
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Hello Lovat, et al.

I share your quest! I also have one of these badges and enclose pics as it appears not to have been polished or shows a different finish. Same maker tag on the back, though not appearing very clearly in my pic.

A peek into the Library and Archives Canada digitised records of the CEF shows No 32 Company of the Canadian Forestry Corps operating in La Foret de Dreux, France.

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e060/e001480534.jpg

The IWM provides a 17 minute film clip of the SA Forestry work in France in 1917. (A variation in the text description drops the word "Native" from the nomenclature of the unit - last line). The clip is fascinating

http://www.europeana.eu/portal/recor...2/IWM_413.html

Text: "The film opens with Number 1 Camp of the contingent by a wood, and a posed group of the black NCOs with their white officers. The NCOs are all "native chiefs". Members of the contingent unload boxes of supplies at a dump from railway wagons, while others use picks and shovels to dig road mending material. The main part of the film concerns the contingent at work in a forest cutting down trees and transporting the logs by means of light rail sledges drawn by horses. The logs are cut to a manageable size by a belt-driven rotary saw. At lunchtime the men relax around a fire, one performs a dance for the camera, and there is a free-for-all, before they return to work. At the main timber yard members of the contingent unload logs from a goods train. The men march back to their camp. One of the sergeants (seen only briefly) is a "Prince in his own country", probably Muti, son of Ntshingwayo, of the Zunga tribe of Zululand., Work of the South African Labour Contingent in France, 1917."

Hypotheses: As anyone that has ever worked as a forester would attest (I have), it is hard, dangerous work that requires considerable skill and coordinated team effort to produce usable lumber in quantity. IF a Continent of supplementary labourers were provided to assist a Forestry Company, over a period of time they would work well and efficiently together. The Unit leadership would prize that efficiency and productivity highly. If that relationship was fruitful, all efforts would be made to promote and preserve it. Noting in the IWN film (it is hard to see clearly) the apparent lack of unit insignia on the caps and uniforms of the labourers, other than the black NCOs with badges of rank, it would have been quite a coup and a boost to morale if unit badges were provided to the men, helping to cement the cohesion of the pieces that were cobbled together. As I said, a hypotheses.

So, here we have a unit, 32 Forestry Company working in the forests of France. We also have South African Labour Contingents working in the forests of France - at the same time (1917). Certainly, this is not proof, but hopefully a useful clue. The question- did they ever work together? More delving into the records and history of the CFC and the SA Labour contingents will have to be done to support or refute the hypothesis.

With kindest regards,

Tim
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File Type: jpg kmj.jpg (47.0 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg kmk.jpg (32.2 KB, 18 views)
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  #15  
Old 17-10-16, 11:32 PM
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Default 32nd Company, Canadian Forestry Corps, South African Labour Contingent

I had listed my spare badge of this type on Ebay a little while ago. As my description was still partly tentative, in spite of the several useful contributions from within this Forum, the listing elicited a most welcome input, and caused me to end the listing early as it was clearly incomplete.

With his permission to mention his intervention, I was contacted by Mr. Chris Brooker, who as many will know, could be described as the "Doyen of Canadian Military Badges." He very generously validated the correctness of the badge and it's authenticity. With his permission, below follows a pre-publication DRAFT regarding the Canadian Forestry Corps Overseas operations. The place where the 32nd Company, Canadian Forestry Corps, South African Labour Contingent badge illustration would go, is immediately above the bold text of that unit name. Here is the text from his draft:

QUOTE BEGINS:

CANADIAN FORESTRY CORPS OVERSEAS
ATTACHED LABORERS CANADIAN FORESTRY CORPS
Each Canadian Forestry Company consisted of six officers 14 Sergeants and 171 other ranks with 12 attached personnel from other branches of the Services and in addition 150 unskilled or semi-skilled attached laborers. By September of 1917 in Great Britain the Canadian Forestry Corps was able to get first call on up to 2000 Portuguese and 2000 Finns as well as many Prisoners of War who could be provided. (The use of POWs for work was allowed under the Geneva Convention.) For many POWs the chance to work in the Forests was far more attractive than being locked up in a Camp. In addition due to the hard manual work all members of the CFC received superior rations to those generally available. In addition surplus sailors were also employed. The Finns and POWs worked out well but most of the Portuguese were transferred to other duties.

The British Government employed many foreign laborers under contract for service in France during WWI. These were drawn from both the Colonies and from Foreign powers. Over the course of the war 195 Companies of Chinese Laborers were hired in China transported across the Pacific to Vancouver sent across Canada by rail then on across the Atlantic to France. Some of these Chinese Labor Companies worked with Canadian Forestry Corps Companies in France. A special unit was created in Canada, the Canadian Railway Guards, to accompany the Chinese Laborers from Vancouver to their port of embarkation in Canada.

An interesting entry in the War Diary of the Canadian Reserve Artillery, Risborough Barracks, Shorncliffe July 18th 1917. Reads in part “12 Officers proceeded overseas as reinforcements to C.F.A. 2nd Heavy Battery and Chinese Labour Battalion.”. This would indicate that Chinese Personnel also performed tasks for the artillery.

No. 32 FORESTRY COMPANY, SOUTH AFRICAN LABOR CONTINGENT

No. 32 Canadian Forestry Company worked under Central Group and was located at Dreux from June 1917 to October 1918 and then at La Trappe from October 1918 until January 1919.

In France the Canadian Forestry Corps served in four widely separated areas named for the regions in which they worked by the time of the armistice three of these ‘Groups’ were each split into two districts. Central Group comprised of District No.1 and No.2 with the following Canadian Forestry Companies 14, 15, 19, 20, 23, 24, 30, 32, 34, 38, 41, 42, 43, 44, 53, 54 and 78. Jura Group comprised of Districts No.5 and No.6 with the following Canadian Forestry Companies 21, 22, 28, 36, 39, 40,47,50, 51, 52, 56, 57,58, 69, 70 and 77. The Bordeaux Group comprised Districts No.4 and No.12 with the following Canadian Forestry Companies 15, 27, 45, 46, 48, 49, 53, 55, 57, 59, 60, 71, 72, 73, 74, 78, 79, and 80. No.9 District operated independently with the following Canadian Forestry Companies 1, 2, (Please see below), 25, 26, 27, 29, 35 and 37. The Marne Group consisted of District No.10 6 with the following Canadian Forestry Companies 31, 33, 51, 55, 69, 75, and 76. The Marne Group comprised a single District, No.10 6. In the summer of 1917 forestry operations started in the Bordeaux area of France and a District Headquarters (No.12) was set up at Bordeaux. A second district Headquarters (No.4) was set up on December 29th 1917. As the number of Forestry Companies increased the 12th District Headquarters was relocated from Bordeaux to Facture, in the Gironde where a depot was established combining headquarters of No.4 and No.12 Districts into the Bordeaux Group for administration purposes.

By the time of the Armistice there were 60 Companies working in France and 41 in Great Britain. Depending on the area from which they were drawn in Canada Forestry companies specialized in cutting different types of forests including soft and hard woods. Some Companies in France cutting Spruce exclusively for aeroplane production. In addition to lumber production other companies worked cutting stone in quarries and constructing air fields.

QUOTE ENDS

Hoping that this helps shed light in this relatively unknown unit and it's insignia. With acknowledgement and appreciation to Chris Brooker for his most welcome contribution.
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