South Saskathewan shoulder title colour

[Bill A]

On a bit of a Sask theme today...
A bit of a theory that needs to be checked. The Assinaboia Regiment used the prairie lily as the motif for their badge. The prairie lily ranges in colour from red to various shades of pink / purple / mauve. Is this the source for the colour that was the background colour on the South Sask Regt cloth shoulder title?

[jim a]

I'm from Saskatchewan and I've never seen a Tiger Lily that's pink purple or mauve... always orange... red/orange... I think it's a stretch to put the purple of the SSR and relate it to the Assiniboias... But I could be wrong

[Bill A]

Thanks Jim, I wonder if that is the lily we call in the east the tiger lily?
They are an orange colour...
So, this takes me back to another possibility.. the prairie crocus.
But, that flower is the provincial flower for Manitoba...would that be an issue as the regimental colour for a Saskatchewan regiment?

[WJ Miller]

I think they took their colours from the capital city's official colours, Regina's flag is Royal Purple and Old Gold. The provincial flower is the western RED lily (common ref. = tiger lily) so I doubt it has anything to do with flowers of the Assiniboia's badge.

Now the South Sask's of the SWW were a 1936 amalgam of the Weyburn Regiment (Weyburn) the the Sask Border Horse (Estevan) using neither of those cities official colours perhaps the choice to use that of the Prov. Capital was a means of compromise...?

[Bill A]

Bill, A couple of follow ups.
First, last week Chris Brooker had two different pattern Assinaboia Regt officer's enamel cap badges for auction. One was almost a fuschia. Some horticultural references show prairie lilies of colours other than the orange / red. The South Sasks were formed from the amalgamation as you indicated, and the Assinaboia Regt was converted to an artillery unit, but from the same general area. Often these amalgamations and conversions left some bad feelings for some soldiers. It is possible that soldiers from the Assinaboia ended up with the SSR. Again, the connections need to be documented. Next is there any sort of connection between the colours and the area that the regiment is from? One thing is certain, the colour selections were not pulled out the hat. All my research indicates that the colours have some significance to the regiment.
In reference to the colours of the Regina city flag, there was already another regiment from that locality, the Regina Rifles Regiment. In the reference here the colour of the flag is indicated to be royal blue, not purple? The significance of the colours in the City of Regina flag is noted as royal blue for the association as the Queen city, and the gold for the wheat fields. Royal blue, in military use is a very very dark blue, almost a black blue.
In all the research so far, the proper colour of the South Sasks titles was the purple / lavender colour. To date there is nothing in the record, to indicate why the regiment chose the colours. But there are comments about the "vivid purple", and whether it was an appropriate colour.
An answer to this mystery would certainly be welcome.

[WJ Miller]

Colour being such a subjective interpretation, one can find "royal" purple described as anywhere from Violet to indigo, to dark blue. "Purple" is an ancient colour associated with nobility, Royal "Blue" is sometimes used interchangably, blue historically being the colour of aristocracy...

I find it interesting that according to the current City of Regina website the city's colours are Gold and Royal "Blue" (the photo of the flag itself is very washed out, bluish? probably due to flash, and not at all "royal" blue or purple??). HOWEVER, that is today.

According to the City of Regina's Public library, "Emblems of Regina",
"The colors, officially adopted by City Council in 1916, are Royal Purple and Old Gold. Regina artist, J. H. Lee-Grayson, designed the official coat of arms. The shield incorporates a buffalo on green prairie against a background of blue sky with white prairie clouds. The lower portion has a golden wheat sheaf on royal purple symbolizing Regina as a centre of the richest wheat-growing district in the Dominion.".

So when did purple become blue? No doubt a colour blind municipal bureaucrat!

I've also found references to Saskatchewan Cheerleading teams using Royal Purple and Gold as well as Florists selling "honour roll" bouquets in Royal Purple and Gold. The Original 1900's "Roughriders" Rugby Club colours were royal purple and gold. There is obviously a significance there... My money is on a link to the "Queen" city, Regina (which is the hub of South Saskatchewan) and their use of Queen Victoria's favourite colour Purple and the Gold of the Wheat fields.

The current colours for the city of Estevan are yellow/gold and BLACK, the yellow for wheat and black for oil and coal resources. As mineral development in the area is a post-war phenomenon, I'd say the city colours might have been different during and prior to the war. The city might not have even had colours prior to the 1950's. I did find some online refernce to municipal flags being created in the 1950's. So, in the case of a city/town without "colours" do they defer to the capital/province?

AS to flowers.. yeah, botanical references being what they are show all varieties. We have lovely dark purple "asiatic" lilies in our garden here in Calgary. But, I'm with Jim on what is seen in the natural Saskatchewan landscape. Common wild prairie lilies are Red-Orange.
http://nativeplants.evergreen.ca/sea...t.php?ID=00400

The Assiniboia badge is definitely a Lily. Crocuses (a type of orchid) on the other hand are another common springtime sight among the short grass. They are bright Purple when they appear and quickly fade in the sun to a pale lavender (much like canvas printed shoulder titles!). And that is about all I will admit to knowing about flowers.

Perhaps the purple is for delicious and plentiful Saskatoon berries?

Also I notice that the SSR colours are similar to those of the Elks "Royal Purple", so perhaps there is a fraternal order link?

It is strange that there isn't an easily accessible reference to the use of those colours? I do agree that there must be a reason, these matters are not random choice.

Going back to the City of Regina website and their explanation of the colours. "The Royal Blue "Sky" doesn't jive with the 1916 and 1929 references I also found... again perhaps some post-war revisionism. (or ignorance)??

Perhaps an email to the Estevan museum could clear things up?

[WJ Miller]

The SSR were affiliated with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (as was the Weyburn Regiment before 1936).

The regimental colours for the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (now the Royal Regt. of Fusiliers) were/are...

Royal Blue and Old Gold with a touch of Dutch Pink.
(whatever the hell that means)

[Bill A]

Thanks Bill, This has moved the research further in one day than I have been able to get in a couple of years.
I had an enquiry to the SSR Association and to the regimental historian about the choice of colours and no one was able to give an answer.
Some background. The 2 Canadian Infantry Division (2 CID) moved from the geometric patching shortly after Dieppe to the named shoulder titles and plain formation patches. (Except for the CII officer's patches.) At that time, all of the battalions of 2 CID went to a blue background colour except the Fus Mont Royal and the SSR's. The colour is variously represented as "royal blue" and divsional blue, but several of the regiments, the Royal Regiment of Canada, RHC, RHLI, were suggested to have used the blue backgroud as representative of their "royal" prefix. They were indicating that was a royal blue. That would likely make the colour of the SSR's something other than the a royal blue. The term royal purple certainly may be the route to pursue.
I attempted to find an example of the Saskatchewan provincial flag pre 1965, but I was unable to find an illustration. What colours were used on that flag?
It doesn't sound like there is a link to the Warwickshire's. Dutch pink is an intriguing description. Wonder what it is?
Your responses have given me some food for thought, and I will continue to research...

[Voltigeur]

Bill, instead of Royal Rifles of Canada did you intend to mean the Royal Regiment of Canada.Also, the RdeMais and Calgary Highlanders had a blue backgroung to the title but were never entitled to "royal".Could it be that it has something to do with the colour of the divisional patch ???
Jo

[Bill A]

Thanks for catching the error Jo.
Re the background colour, that was why I mentioned both alternatives.

[Voltigeur]

Second part of your answer duly noted.
Jo

[WJ Miller]

Bill,

AS you probably already know Saskatchewan was the last province to adopt an official flag (1969). Provincial coat of arms, upper left, a Red Lily on the right and two horz. coloured bars, green over gold. Previous to that they had flown a similarly designed flag for their 60th jubilee (1965).

I was thinking before that, they flew a Red Ensign with the provincial coat of arms in the lower right (but was probably confused with Manitoba). I was able to locate an online reference to Alistair Fraser's "Flags of Canada". Previous to the adoption of provincial flags in the 1960's, most provinces used some form of coat of arms on a coloured field, much in the same manner as the Alberta Provincial Flag (which apparently, in a rather lazy fashion, we just officially adopted... no need for public input or those silly contests).

Anyway, the official flag and colours of the province (Red, Yellow, Green) seem to have nothing to do with the SSR (or Rider Pride).

[Bill A]

That's rough.

[Michael Reintjes]

I can tell you that the colours adopted by the Middlesex and Huron Regiment (Lemon Yellow and Red) were those of the Imperial Middlesex Regiment. Although they did not have coloured shoulder titles duringhe war(wearing only the Middlesex and Huron Slip on)I have an officers stable belt worn by one the the Captains of the Regiment and it is in the colours of the Imperial Regiment (Lemon Yellow and Red). The Regiment did not share the yellow facings of the Imperial regiment though,instead ,wearing blue collars and cuffs on their Scarlett tunics during the militia periods.

[Bill A]

Came across something today. Could the South Sask's title be based on the colour of the fireweed flower? The colour appears to be consistent with that of the SSR.