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  #16  
Old 07-02-08, 02:16 AM
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Certainly, will provide pics of front & back, within the next couple of days.
(This is a very large badge ,of HP size, we are talking about here.)

Cheers !
Steve
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  #17  
Old 08-02-08, 12:58 AM
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Helmet Plate size HUH?? Looking very forward to seeing this one for sure.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-08, 08:05 AM
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Here we go.......Have shown this B4 on other sites ,with no real conclusions.
3 5/8 inches high x 2 3/4 inches wide.
3 x longish & large Victorian style lugs on the back. With a Vic. Crown.
W/M Shamrocks on fully brass back,crown ,mottoe & letters in place,with the harp a separate item , all connected & attached with 9 wire pins.
Am informed it is not a 'known' (British)badge ,but has some similarities to known examples. Especially to Gaylor's pic of a short time used Liverpool Irish(post 1957)Piper's,that is a direct copy of the old Irish Rifle Vols. but item shown is solid ,all silver (WM) with ' IRV' in a circle above the harp & a different mottoe.
Expert oppinion says that this particular Boar's head harp was only LI but the mottoe on mine,'Quis Seperabit' ,though used by many Irish Regts,was not a known LI one.
This badge is a really old one,but am also informed that most Irish Regts did not have Pipe bands B4 1900, only Regt.Bands. (?) May be a bandsman's belt plate ?
OK. so we have a badge that shows cotradictions to the accepted 'norms' ,but I guess not all varieties are known, yet?
The suggestion has been made,that it may be a 'Colonial' (Canada ,NZ,Australia,SA,India) variation, so this is why I'm asking here. ??
I have this one & know of another also,sourced at a different time & location.
A long time puzzle !
Thanks for looking & hoping for answers !

Cheers !
Steve(NZ)
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File Type: jpg Pic403.JPG (90.6 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg Pic404.JPG (91.5 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by dragonz18; 08-02-08 at 08:51 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-02-08, 07:21 PM
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A most interesting piece, I am very confident it has nothing to do with the Liverpool Irish.
Look forward to hearing what others think
P.B.

Might be worth starting a new thread with this

Last edited by Peter Brydon; 08-02-08 at 07:22 PM. Reason: further thoughts
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  #20  
Old 08-02-08, 11:03 PM
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Interesting... The motto looks as if it is misspelled. Should it not be Quis Sep"A"rabit, and not Sep"E"rabit??

The motto appears on the Irish Guards badge as Quis Separabit. The Guards and the Royal Ulster Rifles both use this motto, as does the Order of St. Patrick, I believe.

I have a pretty free night, time to do some digging.



Based on upon some preliminary searching, The information below is simply me trying to make sence of what I have found, or noted. Do not take any of this as gospel, simply help out if possible. I find this badge very very interesting.

I noted the spelling of the SEPERABIT as having an "E" instead of an "A".... IMO not a British badge, as every example I have checked online and in my references it is spelled with an "A".
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Last edited by Pylon1357; 09-02-08 at 12:05 AM. Reason: adding thoughts and notes in hopes others will jump in, as something may trip a memory or two.
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  #21  
Old 09-02-08, 10:33 PM
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Pylon,
thanks for the interest shown here.
I'm sure that the more who are looking, with the widest scope of information & knowledge, then the more chance of a successful identification. The search has been going on for a long while already.

Cheers !
Steve

PS: the Canadian 199th (Irish Rangers) in WW1 mentioned as having something odd about it, may well be as shown in Cox's book, though only a drawn illustration of this variety here, it has the 'BIT' of SEPARABIT spelt as 'BIC' ?? Is this the case on the real item also ?
Several well known spelling varients do exist. eg: Order of the Thistle Mottoe.....on several badges....spelt either as..... 'Lacessit' or 'Lacesset' ?
Cheers ,again !

Last edited by dragonz18; 09-02-08 at 10:35 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-02-08, 03:52 AM
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Glad to try and help out here. I think this is a very beautiful badge. I would like to more about it.

Is the animal head on the harp a ram?? My eyesight seems to be letting me down more and more all the time now.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-08, 05:00 AM
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I would say that it is a Boar's head.
cheers !
Steve
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  #24  
Old 10-02-08, 06:37 PM
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Some of the book on Scottish Regiments list the Commonwealth Scottish Regiments ( for example Bloomer and Barnes )

The only books I have on Irish Regiments ( Harris and Murphy ) tend to concentrate on British and Canadian Irish Regimemts and ignore the other commonwealth Irish Regiements.

In the absence of other possibilities, I must assume RIR, must stand for Royal Irish Regiment or Royal Irish Rifles.

Can any one suggest any othere possibilities .

This is a well made badge and I cannot believe that it is not 100 %.

Attached is a picture of a supposed Liverpool Irish plaid brooch,sold in the last couple of years by a well know auction house.You can see where the item originates from but it is not recorded any where,if it is what the auction house`s attribution is correct.

Peter
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  #25  
Old 13-02-08, 07:41 AM
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Just some thoughts here.........
Indeed a well made, & very professionally so, item. With genuine age.
Despite knowledgable comment in the past (not to be ignored,in any way),saying that some features are not thought of as being correctly compatable here, I cannot overcome the seemingly obvious connections with the early IRV badges,shown in the crown, shamrocks & harp styles, combined with the mottoe & initials of the RIR( more likely the 'Rifles'?). Was there some connection here, however brief ?
I think that the thoughts that it may be a Colonial badge possibly stem from a more 'loose' application of the accepted 'norms' that might apply with these? Still a strong possibility also.
Still,either way, it's got to fit in somewhere. There being ,at least ,2 known examples,from differing origins, helps to make an acceptable argument for it's genuineness also, I feel ?
A pic of it in wear would be a real help, but likely only wishful thinking !!

Cheers for now !
Steve

Last edited by dragonz18; 13-02-08 at 07:32 PM.
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  #26  
Old 14-02-08, 01:01 AM
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I miss placed some notes I had regarding the Royal Irish Rifles? I think it was Rifles as opposed to Regiment. Unfortunately, I have three teenagers who are constantly on my computer and think that my notes and scribbles are just scrap paper.

However, the notes were along the lines of the Irish being a County Defense Unit. I will continue to look and see what I find. It may be an avenue worth a second look.

I agree that this badge does look IMO to be a genuine badge and something made up.
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  #27  
Old 16-02-08, 04:09 PM
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Pylon,

I wonder if you could clarify something for me please, I assume the Irish Regiment of Canada was the equivalent of one of the British Territorial Battalions i.e made up of non regular soldiers but like our Liverpool Irish and London Irish did they only normally recruit from a specific locality ( I presume in war time members might be recruited from across the country ).

If so where was the headquaters and over what size area did they recruit in peacetime ?

Sorry if it sounds a rather nieve question.

Peter

P.S. most surprised nobody has come up with anything positive on dragonz most intersting badge
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  #28  
Old 16-02-08, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thfoot View Post
Pylon,

I wonder if you could clarify something for me please, I assume the Irish Regiment of Canada was the equivalent of one of the British Territorial Battalions i.e made up of non regular soldiers but like our Liverpool Irish and London Irish did they only normally recruit from a specific locality ( I presume in war time members might be recruited from across the country ).

If so where was the headquaters and over what size area did they recruit in peacetime ?

Sorry if it sounds a rather nieve question.

Peter

P.S. most surprised nobody has come up with anything positive on dragonz most intersting badge

This is not a naive question at all. I will make my reply quite short as I could go on for paragraph after paragraph.

Your assumptions are correct.

The Irish Regiment of Canada came into existence during WWI. It's home was in Toronto Ontario from its inception until 1965 when it was placed on the supplemental order of Battle (effectively disbanded).

In 1965 during some reorganization of the Canadian Forces, an Artillery Regiment in Sudbury was re-designated Infantry and was given the Title 2nd Battalion Irish Regiment of Canada.

The Regiment is a Reserve Battalion now and recruits around the Sudbury Ontario region.

I hope this answered your questions. Sometimes I babble on and on about the Irish Regiment of Canada, which I did here before I cut it back to this reply. If I missed anything or you have further questions, I will do my best to answer them.

In regards to the badge that dragonz posted, darn right its a beautiful badge. I still have not made any headway in regards to identifying it.
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