British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Infantry (& Guards) Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 03-02-16, 08:11 PM
Jim Maclean Jim Maclean is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 231
Default

My lugs are the same as Andy's. The QVC badge is also e-w but on the central axis.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-02-16, 08:23 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Porthcawl, South Wales
Posts: 7,658
Default

I think at times we as collectors get too far in to the weeds! Whilst it is abundantly clear that between the 1890's and 1903/06 badges transitioned from lugs to long and then short sliders, there are still anomalies well beyond this!

Why? Probably no other reason than manufacturers just did!!

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-02-16, 08:49 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,724
Default

The KRRC wore the QVC badge with lugs upto 1902.

The TEK badge was introduced until in 1902 and lasted until 1905 and then it changed to the KRRC badge that continued until the 1950s.

If, big if, the TEK badge was worn on the side cap with lugs and the FSH/slouch with long sliders then this might explain both fittings?

I suspect the KRRC did not wear Brodricks.

Alan
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-02-16, 09:18 PM
Charlie 585's Avatar
Charlie 585 Charlie 585 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 176
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
I suspect the KRRC did not wear Brodricks.

Alan
Here's an image that might be of interest!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg img106.jpg (117.2 KB, 32 views)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-02-16, 10:03 PM
Charlie 585's Avatar
Charlie 585 Charlie 585 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 176
Default KRRC Kk 674 675 2011

Hello Gents,

An interesting thread in every aspect and it’s nice to see the KRRs getting an airing.

As to the original topic of the thread, the badge in question is K&K 2011 which was sealed in 1905 superseding K&K 675 which we know came on loops and a slider and was as K&K 674 certainly worn on the Brodrick.

It is my estimation that the long slidered K&K 2011 badges are early manufactured examples 1905-1906 intended for use on the Brodrick cap while it was still on issue with later made examples falling into line with the short slider that came in to use on the forage cap post 1906, being issued once stocks of the long slidered badge were exhausted.


Just to Clarify the order of the badges

1. K&K 674 Kings Crown small (45mm high) badge with Tel-el-Kebir honour at the foot of the cross.

2. K&K675 Kings Crown large (50mm high) badge with Tel-el-Kebir honour at the foot of the cross.

3. K&K 2011 Kings Crown large (55mm high) Badge with Ladysmith honour at the foot of the cross. (Worn as Alan stated from 1905 until the 1950s alongside the WW2 plastic economy badge K&K 2251 and superseded with the Queens Crown Plastic badge K&K 2012)

Regards to all

Last edited by Charlie 585; 13-02-16 at 10:56 AM. Reason: KK 2011 size correction
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-02-16, 05:06 AM
Jelly Terror's Avatar
Jelly Terror Jelly Terror is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FGC65 View Post
Hello Gents,

An interesting thread in every aspect and it’s nice to see the KRRs getting an airing.

As to the original topic of the thread, the badge in question is K&K 2011 which was sealed in 1905 superseding K&K 675 which we know came on loops and a slider and was as K&K 674 certainly worn on the Brodrick.

It is my estimation that the long slidered K&K 2011 badges are early manufactured examples 1905-1906 intended for use on the Brodrick cap while it was still on issue with later made examples falling into line with the short slider that came in to use on the forage cap post 1906, being issued once stocks of the long slidered badge were exhausted.


Just to Clarify the order of the badges

1. K&K 674 Kings Crown small (45mm high) badge with Tel-el-Kebir honour at the foot of the cross.

2. K&K675 Kings Crown large (50mm high) badge with Tel-el-Kebir honour at the foot of the cross.

3. K&K 2011 Kings Crown large (50mm high) Badge with Ladysmith honour at the foot of the cross. (Worn as Alan stated from 1905 until the 1950s alongside the WW2 plastic economy badge K&K 2251 and superseded with the Queens Crown Plastic badge K&K 2012)

Regards to all
Fantastic, FGC65. Thank you for both your posts and especially for the clarification on K&K number refs.

Looking through both volumes of K&K, together with the details of your post, it is now clear that the badge featuring the Ladysmith honour at the lower end of the bottom arm of the cross is KK2011 (sealed Dec. 1905). However, it would appear that this badge is 55mm in length, and not 50mm, as you have stated. Do you concur?

By way of correction to my previous post, here are the badges 'renumbered', for reference:

KRRC 675 2011.jpg
TK675b1.jpgLADYS 2011.jpgTEK 675b2.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-02-16, 11:06 AM
KLR's Avatar
KLR KLR is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Posts: 3,055
Default

I thought you might all be interested to know what the official WO (RACD) Pattern numbers etc were for the various KRRC badges discussed (all from TNA WO 359) – against the K&K designations.
I don't know anything about KRRC badges myself but I hope this of some use to those who do !

RACD Patt 10172/1882 Forage cap, small crowned Maltese cross with honours on arms
RACD Patt 884/1886 Glengarry (there was no 884A)
RACD Patt 884B/1895 glengarry design but reduced in size for FSCap
RACD Patt 884C/1902 as 884B but with a Tudor crown, shanks altered for Slouch, FSCap, FSH, (K&K 674)
RACD Patt 884D/1903 2in in height, for new patt Forage cap, slouch and FSH (K&K 675)
RACD Patt 884E/1905 with Ladysmith honour, for new patt Forage cap and FSH (K&K 2011)

Last edited by Alan O; 12-02-16 at 12:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-02-16, 02:31 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,724
Default

This is the KRRC glengarry next to the QVC FS cap that Julian refers to.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P2120012.JPG (82.7 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 13-02-16, 10:54 AM
Charlie 585's Avatar
Charlie 585 Charlie 585 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 176
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Terror View Post
Fantastic, FGC65. Thank you for both your posts and especially for the clarification on K&K number refs.

Looking through both volumes of K&K, together with the details of your post, it is now clear that the badge featuring the Ladysmith honour at the lower end of the bottom arm of the cross is KK2011 (sealed Dec. 1905). However, it would appear that this badge is 55mm in length, and not 50mm, as you have stated. Do you concur?
I'm pleased that the info was well received and glad that it prompted Julian to post the SP details which are very useful to those with an interest in KRR badges.

As to the dimensions of KK2011, yes JT you are correct, my mistake, 55mm it is.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 13-02-16, 11:49 AM
Chipper's Avatar
Chipper Chipper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: France
Posts: 905
Default

I have found this thread very interesting and it has answered and clarified an area that can be quite confusing for the beginner.

Many thanks to all of you who have contributed and for taking the time to think on this, and to willingly give us valuable info,

Cheers, Tim

Last edited by Chipper; 13-02-16 at 06:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kk675, krrc, long slider

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:37 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.