Use of the turban in the CF

[Michael Dorosh]

Reading through my copy of Fuss & Fashion, I was interested to read the information on page 171, which notes that Lt.-Col. Saigan of the BCR obtained permission to wear a regimental turban. Unfortunately, no dates are provided, though the use of current CF uniform and decorations suggest a fairly recent tour of command (the photo caption indicates he is the C.O.)

In June of 1990, I recall that on a parade I participated in, one of the colour ensigns for The Calgary Highlanders wore a regimental turban, in blue and with red and white dicing. The occasion was a presentation of Queen's Colour at McMahon Stadium, trooping of the colours, and inspection of both the Highlanders and The King's Own Calgary Regiment by the Colonel-in-Chief of both regiments, H.M. Queen Elizabeth II.

However, the use of the regimental turban on that occasion does not contradict the text of the book, as I don't know if the requisite permission was ever obtained for a regimental pattern to be worn. The colour ensign was Lieutenant H. Sekhon. I do recall he wore a plain green turban - on occasion - and the only time I remember seeing the regimental turban was on that parade. Anecdotally, there are stories of some backlash about the cutting up of other regimental headdress to make the "regimental" turban, and that may actually suggest there was no official permission from DHH/NDHQ to wear it.

It was a landmark parade in another sense, as I believe it was the first time female Highlanders were permitted to wear the kilt on parade.

There is certainly, as the book suggests, more research to be done, but the story begins as early as 1990, and extends beyond Toronto and Vancouver.

[Pylon1357]

I can not add much to what you have said other than I recall seeing a CF member in KAF on two different tours, his first he was a Major, his second, I am sure he was Lt. Col. I guess this must be the man.

[slick_mick]

I've seen pictures of sikh members of the Australian Army and RAN wearing turbans.

It's even mentioned in the current Army Dress Manual. Either black or brown is allowed.

Mick

[ddaydodger]

The British Army has gone the same way:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-bearskin.html

[Fatboy Ken]

Here is a guy from the RLC open day at Deepcut July last year, we also had Charlie Singh a Cpl in the RCT as far back as the 1980's wearing turbans on parade.

It's never caused a problem since I've been in, we have all sorts in the Army now, ...... even foreigners, ......... lol

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[Phillip Herring]

Sikhs have been wearing turbans in the Canadian Forces since I joined. To those who disagreed, I have always contended that if it was good enough for Sikhs to wear turbans while they fought, killed and died under British command, then there is no reason why they shouldn't wear them in the CF. And they always look sharp.

Phil

[Pylon1357]

Originally Posted by Phillip Herring

Sikhs have been wearing turbans in the Canadian Forces since I joined. To those who disagreed, I have always contended that if it was good enough for Sikhs to wear turbans while they fought, killed and died under British command, then there is no reason why they shouldn't wear them in the CF. And they always look sharp.

Phil

I could not agree more Phillip. I must admit, the sight of a Canadian Major with a Turban in line at Tim Horton's on the Boardwalk, sure made my head turn. I had never seen anything like it before.

The only question I asked myself at the time I saw the Major was... how the heck does he wear a helmet over his turban? I suppose there is no way he could do so.

I admit to knowing very little about the Sikhs serving in the CF or RCMP. I think I have now found something to occupy some of my time.

[ddaydodger]

Here is an article in the Ottawa Citizen, July 1986 on the first Sikh in the CF.

Army discharges Sikh for refusing to wear helmet.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3410,3098459

[shootemup]

One of the guys I know just wears the turban with the outer helmet right over top, no inner liner. Probably works better than the actual liner.

[Michael Reintjes]

I think I recall use of the turban in the CF earlier than....I seem to remember a guy on a GMT course at the LMD Battle school at Wolesley Barracks,London Ontario....1981,maybe '82.....certainly earlier than 1986.

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by shootemup

One of the guys I know just wears the turban with the outer helmet right over top, no inner liner. Probably works better than the actual liner.

Not these days. They brought in kevlar helmets about 1997-98.

Phil

[edstorey]

"One of the guys I know just wears the turban with the outer helmet right over top, no inner liner. Probably works better than the actual liner."

Yes, please explain to me how you wear the CG634 without the 'liner'?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by edstorey

"One of the guys I know just wears the turban with the outer helmet right over top, no inner liner. Probably works better than the actual liner."

Yes, please explain to me how you wear the CG634 without the 'liner'?

Easy, guys.

He probably means the removal of the webbing/head adjustment pads, etc., leaving just the shell to sit directly on the turban.

[shootemup]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the new helmet system and I interpreted what I was told based on what I know of the old helmet system. Thanks for clearing that up, Michael, I'm sure that is what was meant.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by shootemup

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the new helmet system and I interpreted what I was told based on what I know of the old helmet system. Thanks for clearing that up, Michael, I'm sure that is what was meant.

A couple of us had to rig up an infantry section for a Tattoo in Edmonton circa 2006, in First World War uniforms. Not being rich men, and doing this mostly out of pocket, we acquired some Mk II helmet shells from the local surplus store for 5 dollars apiece. They did not have liners in them.

Incidentally, I always understood the term "liner" to be the correct word for the tangle of web used to fit the helmet to the head, including both the suspension straps and the headband - if there is another term for this, I'd be interested - David Gordon certainly refers to 'helmet liners' in his book EQUIPMENT OF THE WWII TOMMY in his discussion of the wartime Mark II. Not sure why people are jumping all over the use of the term here to think is *has* to refer to the fibre helmet shell type liner that went inside the old U.S.-style two-piece steel helmets. All my references indicate that is not the case.

Anway - to fit these helmet shells without liners to the heads of our re-enactors, I came upon the elegant (read: "cheap") solution of taking old towels and fixing them into the helmet with duct tape. We fashioned chin straps out of cotton webbing (available at a fabric store) dyed to a khaki shade and in some cases reinforced with more duct tape, secured to the helmet shell with more tape (I believe we ran it under the towel, first).

With a tight enough chin-strap, we found the helmets stayed in place. Bearing in mind the centre of gravity on those old Tommy-style helmets, I don't doubt you would have an easier time with the new "Fritz" looking kevlars, which seem to me to have a slightly lower centre of gravity. Given that the foam head rest and the straps have minimal ballistic properties, not much is lost.