RCDC Seniority? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Bill A · #1 01-10-10, 11:44 AM

Going through some reference material, I noticed that the Royal Canadian Dental Corps was senior to other corps, including the RCOC, and the RCAPC, which had been formed before the tooth pick boys. Anyone know why the RCDC was senior?

edstorey · #2 01-10-10, 12:38 PM

Perhaps they were formed from the Medical Corps and therefore follow them on the list? Or maybe due to their specilist technical skills that put them higher than Chaplains, MPs and Lawyers? I would think that there was some form of criteria that had to be covered in order to determine the location on the listing.

Bill A · #3 01-10-10, 12:59 PM

Agreed, Ed. But, that is what I am trying to find. What would the criteria be?
The RCOC were granted seniority 1 July 1903, RCAMC, 2 July, 1904, yet the RCAMC is senior to the RCOC. To further confuse the issue, the RCASC is senior to all of these, given authority on 1 December, 1903.

Phillip Herring · #4 01-10-10, 01:01 PM

I think that Ed is right. I went through my copy of The Regiments and Corps of The Canadian Army and made the following observations:

1. RCAMC authorized 2 Jul 1904
2. RCDC - next in precedence after RCAMC - Militia component authorized 20 Apr 1915
3. RCOC authorized 1 Jul 1903
4. RCEME - next in precedence after RCOC - authorized 1 Feb 1944.

Since RCEME was formed from RCOC, it follows that its precedence is directly related to the parent corps. I think that this is what happened with RCDC.

Now, there was a "Medical Staff Corps" - the badge is shown in Mazeas - and I would be curious to know when they were authorized as they are not mentioned in The Regiments and Corps of The Canadian Army.

Phil

Bill A · #5 01-10-10, 01:03 PM

Hi Phil, Used the same reference as you. There is still the anomoly of the RCOC and RCASC.

Voltigeur · #6 01-10-10, 01:16 PM

Hello Gents. I have found this,perhaps it will add some fuel to the fire.....read the part about the Bor war,could be the beginnings of the corps.
Jo

http://www.cda-adc.ca/_files/cda/abo...ry/HSPart5.pdf

Bill A · #7 01-10-10, 01:36 PM

Hi Jo, Your reference supports Ed's contention. There were dentists in the original Canadian Army Medical Corps establishment, which explains the seniority of the RCDC immediately after the RCAMC. However, there are still some anomolies in that the RCOC was authorized before the CAMC / RCAMC, yet is junior in seniority.

Phillip Herring · #8 01-10-10, 02:12 PM

Now, there was a "Medical Staff Corps" - the badge is shown in Mazeas - and I would be curious to know when they were authorized as they are not mentioned in The Regiments and Corps of The Canadian Army.

I had put the above entry in my last post on this thread and it may have been missed.

Phil

Dwayne H · #9 01-10-10, 02:33 PM

...dates their existence back to Nov 1901. While a GO creating districts came out in 1903, the differences in the dates might explain the seniority. The centennial celebrations for the RCASC were held at Borden in 2001.

Bill A · #10 01-10-10, 02:51 PM

So, Regiments and Corps of the Canadian Army is not a reliable source, from all I am reading.

edstorey · #11 01-10-10, 03:23 PM

Perhaps when all of the senior officers were gathered about making the decision, the doctors and the dentists could drink more than the Ordnance Officers. Or maybe some people had their annual medicals and dentals coming up and they didn't want to piss off the medical people by putting them too low on the list.

In all seriousness though, I would be interested in what the criteria actually was. If there were any...

Bill A · #12 01-10-10, 03:34 PM

Well, we all know the horrors that a med officer can put one through... Who wants to argue with a surgeon weilding the power of a colonoscopy...?
There is a significant question unanswered, as Ed says, what were the criteria? I understand that "continuous service" is one component. So, if a corps/regiment was raised for a short term, eg say Boer War service, and then disbanded, that service would not count in establishing seniority. (See the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.)

Phillip Herring · #13 01-10-10, 03:42 PM

In the case of The Royal Newfoundland Regiment, it is not simply a case of continuous service, but also seniority within the Canadian Army.

Phil

edstorey · #14 01-10-10, 04:13 PM

CFAO 61-6
PRECEDENCE

GENERAL

1. This order amplifies QR&O 3.43, which gives responsibility for determining precedence on a parade or at ceremonial functions to the parade commander or other officer in charge of military participation.

2. Depending on the circumstances, precedence will be determined on an individual basis; by component, formation, or unit; or by branch. The normal order of precedence will be respected in each case unless there are clear and obvious reasons to do otherwise.

3. Seniority, which has connotations of age and length of service, is only one of the factors that determine precedence.

Now to see if I can find the 'factors'.

servicepub · #15 01-10-10, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill A

Well, we all know the horrors that a med officer can put one through... Who wants to argue with a surgeon weilding the power of a colonoscopy...?
There is a significant question unanswered, as Ed says, what were the criteria? I understand that "continuous service" is one component. So, if a corps/regiment was raised for a short term, eg say Boer War service, and then disbanded, that service would not count in establishing seniority. (See the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.)

I heard (unsubstantiated rumour follows) that the RNR where given a preference in the Order of Seniority as part of the negotiations in bringing NL into Confederation, along with a guarantee that it would be the last Militia unit disbanded.