Rydal School OTC

[Luke H]

I agree with Brian.

Believe these badges were from the recent C&T auction. Many of the lots contained some nice and very rare badges (which I’m told may be ex-Bas Brunlett collection) but they were often mixed in with obvious repros, around 40-50% in some lots.

I’ve messaged Paul about this badge and the fake RMF, E Lancs TF and 20th H.

[RSM]

Further to Alan O's post #4, here is a non-maker-marked example which found its way into my hands. I assume it originated from the seller in the link. Either way, the badge was clearly made yesterday. Shown here for reference.

[Alan O]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363798158...AAAOSwpd5iVGAM

and now available with Smith & Wright mark. There are a few well known auction houses who have sold badges from this same fake die as genuine.

The whole store looks like a Martin Marsh catalogue. Including a fake Firmin Wellingborough badge that shows the reverse impression of being a modified JTC badge. Fake as a fake thing.

[Sonofacqms]

As Laurie Archer put in his notes about dealers, "Beware of a seller that always has rare and scarce badges in their stocks".

I think most of the people who pay good money for this junk should abide by this maxim.

Rob

[Luke H]

Alan

Can I ask when the JTC ended and what would have been extant for Wellingborough’s Cadets Corps in the late 1940s or 1950s?

Luke

[Alan O]

Luke

The JTC as an organisation ended in 1947. There were very few bespoke JTC designs but Wellingborough was one of the schools that had the OTC title on their badges retitied as JTC. It then appears that the JTC dies were themselves erased to create the blank scrol version. I can only assume that it is this die that has fell into the hands of the restriker making these ones.

After 1947 it wuld have been a CCF but I need to research to find out what badges were worn by them and when. I don't think a CCF version was made.

Alan

[Luke H]

Thanks Alan. I think you may have been on the right lines in this thread:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=71568

If the JTC die had fallen into the hands of repro-ers it’s a strange move to erase a scroll which can stamp a JTC badge worth £80-100 on dealers lists to create an unknown fantasy badge.

Admittedly repro-ers do do strange things so debating logic can be folly.

Indeed would turning the gammy J back into an O not have been far easier and of more value?

Clearly the die had already been modified from OTC > JTC so why not post JTC potentially? Just a thought.

I agree the slider does appear to be a later post-war Firmin one. That may fit with the CCF era.

More research may hold the key here.

At present it’s not a badge I would dismiss if I collected Cadets.

[Alan O]

https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/co...chool-history/

It would be really nice to think this badge was original but I have a nagging feeling there is now a spurious ebay purchase in their CCF archive!

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Peter J

Can anyone tell me anything about Rydal School OTC, please?

There seems to be no reference to in K&K, and I can find nothing here on the forum relating to it either.

DNW auctioned a cap badge back in 2011, so I'm wondering if anyone can throw some light on their history and perhaps why there is so little info about it, please?

With thanks,

Peter

I have little doubt that this one from the 2011 auction is a fake. As are these aged ones on ebay today.

[Alan O]

For refernece - this is the fake die and now with a S&W mark

[BROOKIES]

Good afternoon.

Here we have two cap badge for Rydal School.

The infamous copy F.E.Woodward B'Ham (14.23 grams) and the genuine one (13.68 grams) imaged side by side to show the difference in quality and manufacture, bronzed and artificially bronzed.

Only thing that is odd on the original is that the O.T.C has been removed/erased, don't know why, hopefully someone may know why.

Ta

Jonathan

DSC00135.JPGDSC00138.JPGDSC00139.JPGDSC00140.jpgDSC00143.jpgDSC00144.jpgDSC00149.JPGDSC00151.JPG

[Alan O]

If that was on ebay last year I was an underbider.

My believe was that is was used by the cadet corps when it ceased to be an OTC. they had been a RWF unit so they may have reverted to them before disbandment? They raised an ATC unit in WW2.

[41st]

Thanks Jonathan,

Extremely useful.

Do we know if all original badges have had the OTC letters removed?

Hwyl,

Kevin

[Luke H]

Is it possible to get a clearer front pic of the erased scroll badge please?

[Alan O]

Here you go and a Woodward fake but this time without the heavy bronzing. A S&W fake as well.

The unmarked fakes have the same flawed rear definition as if the faker has used a genuine badge to make a cast copy.