Do they take us for mugs?

[badjez]

The attached photos should serve as a warning to those considering buying 'combination patches'.

This one came as a by-product of another purchase and is worth considering in a little detail

a) Was the combination of badges likely to have existed?

b) A quick check in Joslen's Orders of battle ( a 'must have' book for serious collectors IMO) shows that there was NOT a Middlesex Regt Bn attached to any of the 15th ()Scottish) Division's component Brigades during the 1939-45 period.

c) On-line references revealed '1st Battalion, Middlesex Regiment (from 1 October 1943, joined as Support Battalion, became Machine Gun Battalion 18 March 1944)'.

d) So, if a 'Machine Gun' Bn the Middlesex would not have displayed an Arm-of-Service strip for the senior Brigade.

e) There remains a possibility that a Middlesex Regt soldier was attached to the senior Brigade, perhaps in an HQ/ Staff role, but that is conjecture.

f) Examine the combination closely, and you will see traces of the manufacturer having used Blu-tac beneath the title and AoS strip- was this available to WW2 regimental tailers? I think not.

g) Look at the stitching. Were coloured threads so readily available that they could be used to make up combinations.

Conclusion- someone tried to take collectors for a ride. Its a fake, made to rip off the unwary. I wonder how many more exist like this: there certainly has been a glut of such titles reaching the market in the last few years.


Let the buyer beware.

Stephen.

[Mike Jackson]

Stephen, From an article on Sgt Bishop and his career in the Middlesex Regiment, published in Militaria. Mike
Sgt Godfrey.1 Mx.doc

[badjez]

Thanks Mike,

OK, so I might be wrong about the format- but I still don't understand why he is wearing a single AoS strip.

My point was that someone has fabricated a fake patch, and that we all need to take things at more than face value when purchasing.

Stephen.

PS- I suppose next someone will prove that Blu-tac did exist in 1944...or is it US Army chewing gum.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by badjez

Thanks Mike,

OK, so I might be wrong about the format- but I still don't understand why he is wearing a single AoS strip.

My point was that someone has fabricated a fake patch, and that we all need to take things at more than face value when purchasing.

Stephen.

PS- I suppose next someone will prove that Blu-tac did exist in 1944...or is it US Army chewing gum.

I think that as a generalisation, it was the practice for Infantrymen of any rank serving in an Inf Div HQ or in Divisional units (such as the Support/MG Bn) to wear a single Infantry AoS strip. However, this being the British Army other formations had other accepted practices - in some Inf Divs HQ staff or all ranks at Div HQ and Bde HQ level would wear a small patch - usually a simple piece of coloured felt - to indicate their membership of the HQ. This was the practice in 3 Inf Div, In other Inf Divs members of, for example, Fd Regts RA or Coys, R Signals would wear one, two or three AoS strips in order to indicate to which Inf Bde they were in support of. I have examples from 56 Inf Div Gunners and 61 Inf Div Signals. As always, the bottom line is "never say never"! Mike

[badjez]

Thanks Mike.

Stephen.

[ASR142]

hi guys
pause for thought!
In Morris vol 2 formation signs on page 115/16 item 60 in that chapter he shows the 9 as a diamond / square on its points and not a square for the 9th Middlesex on the pages 45 to 48 he shows other Middlesex badges as squares and rectangles these are divided vertical and not corner to corner where the pic that Mike has shown shows it being the correct rectangle divided vertical yellow and red where Stephens post shows it as a square divided corner to corner did they wear them like that ?
On another point the pic that Mike has shown shows the combination as being just the 15th , arm of service and the Middlesex flash the title being stitched on separately from the rest of the patches the outline can be made out all the way round the combination also the shoulder title is of the correct larger format for the period just something to think about ?
ATB Steve

[Staffsyeoman]

Made on a kitchen table a week last Saturday. Like so many of them appearing of late.

[Alan O]

Over the years I have worn many badges and patches and the odd thing was when I had finished with them I unstitched the threads and took them off and put them away. At no point did I feel the need to cut the whole sleeve off a perfectly usable shirt or jacket. Just a thought.

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Over the years I have worn many badges and patches and the odd thing was when I had finished with them I unstitched the threads and took them off and put them away. At no point did I feel the need to cut the whole sleeve off a perfectly usable shirt or jacket. Just a thought.

over the years i have found parts of tunics ie wwi cuff ranks sleeves with rank etc on them , WWII BD shoulder areas which have been cut of off tunics normally when they have kept there tunic and its got mothed so they cut the shoulder off to save time its not a commonly done thing but does happen steve

[badjez]

Still no explanation of the Blu-tac...

Stephen.

[magpie]

I think there could a few people out there feeling for the hidden blu tac bumps in their similar stitched on badges.

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by badjez

Still no explanation of the Blu-tac...

Stephen.

ITS WILLY WONKA'S BLUEBERRY FLAVOR CHEWING GUM !!

[Sonofacqms]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Over the years I have worn many badges and patches and the odd thing was when I had finished with them I unstitched the threads and took them off and put them away. At no point did I feel the need to cut the whole sleeve off a perfectly usable shirt or jacket. Just a thought.

I have always wondered why anyone would cut up a perfectly good BD just to keep the insignia when it could be unstitched and removed, these combinations seem to have proliferated since the origins of online sales.

Rob

[ASR142]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

I have always wondered why anyone would cut up a perfectly good BD just to keep the insignia when it could be unstitched and removed, these combinations seem to have proliferated since the origins of online sales.

Rob

I do agree with you you never ever rarely saw them and now they seem to be everywhere I wounder how many 49 pattern trousers are getting cut up ? steve

[tim]

Totally agree with ASR142 and others, years ago you never saw them, I believe 99% are made up. Tim