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  #1  
Old 31-07-20, 09:54 PM
Luke H's Avatar
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Default RND Maker Variations - My Observations

Badges of the Royal Naval Division have always been a hot topic and the fake Gaunt plaque flood circa early 2000s caused yet more controversy and further uncertainty.

The volume of fakery and fears of forgeries in the RND series of badges has created much caution and perhaps unsurprisingly an almost instant dismissal of any badge other than the bona fide Gaunt made examples sporting genuine plaques like those in Paddy’s wonderful album...
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...hp?albumid=251

The only commonly accepted exception to this ‘rule’ being the close crown Drake Battalion badge that has been well received by many members here and accepted as a period piece by a different manufacturer.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ighlight=Drake

This got me thinking if there was an alternate maker for the Drake Bn then why not likewise for some, if not all, the other battalions?

To my great surprise looking through my 1st edition (1971) copy of Gaylor I noticed that every RND shown aside from the Drake Bn was NOT from the Gaunt die.

Firstly none of the badges shown were from known fake dies and all were quite unique in their features, a couple of which I’ve listed below:

Howe - oval ‘0’. Distinctive voids.
Anson - very short left strawberry on coronet.
Nelson - straight N. Diagonal sail creases.
Hawke - arrow-headed bird & stamped lugs.
Hood - lop sided scroll ends. Distinct beak.

I’ve managed to obtain an example of each of these badge and to my eyes they all strike me as genuine period pieces. The strike, loops, braze and metal all look right for WW1. They are also certainly not available in droves like the eBay repros.

I can go into more detail for my rationale for each badge if required but for brevity I’ll stop there and let the pictures do the talking.

In conclusion my belief is all of these badges are genuine non-Gaunt manufacturer variations.

Just to end here, I owe Sonofacqms and apology for deeming his repaired Hawke with the stamped loops a repro. I now believe I was mistaken.
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  #2  
Old 31-07-20, 09:56 PM
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Default Continued

Pics continued...
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  #3  
Old 31-07-20, 10:31 PM
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Luke,

Excellent detective work as usual and compelling.

I have no doubt that more than one maker made these badges, just like virtually every other cap badge of WW1.

My comparison is with WW1 Royal Artillery cap badges of which I have 8 different maker marked examples plus 4 Indian maker marked examples, so 2 makers for RND badges is very plausible.

regards
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  #4  
Old 01-08-20, 07:37 AM
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Many thanks Simon.
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  #5  
Old 01-08-20, 07:51 AM
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Smile RND badges

Thanks Luke, I am sure that more manufacturers other than just Gaunt made badges for the RND, from what I gather Gaunt had the original contract, but may have "farmed" it to others.

Rob
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  #6  
Old 01-08-20, 11:55 AM
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Typically thorough and well thought out, Luke. Thanks for sharing this with us

cheers, Tim
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  #7  
Old 01-08-20, 01:55 PM
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Cheers very much Tim. Hope you and the family are well.
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  #8  
Old 01-08-20, 02:32 PM
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The stamped loops example may well be Fattorini, they’re seen on their VTC badges.
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  #9  
Old 08-08-20, 09:25 PM
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Luke

When I first started collecting RND badges I deliberately stuck with Gaunt marked badges as it made it easier for me to collect what I believed were genuine badges (but then the fake Gaunt tablets started appearing. While collecting the Gaunt badges I did see unmarked versions at fairs that the dealers insisted were genuine, some I believed but the majority I didn't. After I had picked up all the Gaunt marked badges I started looking at the unmarked versions as I always believed that Gaunt were not the only maker. So far I have picked up Drake, Nelson and Hood badges that I believe have a good chance of being good but made by a different maker other than Gaunt. I have attached pictures of the 3 badges and as you will see the Hood badges has similar flat lugs to the Hawke badge that you have.

Paddy
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  #10  
Old 03-10-20, 04:32 PM
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Many thanks indeed Paddy, I completely agree with everything you’ve said. Those 3 badges are all from the dies I mentioned above.

Thanks also for showing the Hood badge with the stamped lug fixing. Again the brass sheet used for the lug is identical in shape and approximate thickness (i.e. quite thin) to the Hawke Bn I showed.
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  #11  
Old 06-08-22, 03:40 PM
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I recently found this one. It has the split lettering and the 8 lines of longitude.

However unlike the usual Gaunt ORs ones it is die cast. I am in 2 minds about it. I am reluctant to label it as a fake in case it is actually a genuine Gaunt badge. What did their officers wear?
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  #12  
Old 06-08-22, 03:42 PM
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https://www.dearoldblighty.com/en-GB...7#.Yu6LpyvMJhE

Well that's new to me- I never realised the officers wore half sized Drake bimetal collar badges!
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  #13  
Old 07-08-22, 07:12 AM
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Thanks Luke for starting this interesting thread.

Have a look at the Nelson specimen on the left. It has some of the features that we see on the ubiquitous 'Marsh' fake, but these features are all a bit different to his, as if this is the strike the fakers tried to copy. I have shown it before.

Points to note:
continuous rigging
voided top pennant
mermaid that morphs well from the human upper torso into the lower fish tail without the hula hoop around her middle
same number of planks on either side of the bow
different arrangement to the fake of the 'dashes' at the top of the sails and the straight lines at the bottom
gold braise on 'D' shaped loops

I've been unsure about it for several years, but thought it was worth hanging on to just in case. Whatever it is, original or not, it does seem to be the template used for the fake one.

Mark
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Last edited by dubaiguy; 07-08-22 at 07:26 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-08-22, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
https://www.dearoldblighty.com/en-GB...7#.Yu6LpyvMJhE

Well that's new to me- I never realised the officers wore half sized Drake bimetal collar badges!
Alan, there is a pair of them in my RND album. Paddy
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  #15  
Old 07-08-22, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
I recently found this one. It has the split lettering and the 8 lines of longitude.

However unlike the usual Gaunt ORs ones it is die cast. I am in 2 minds about it. I am reluctant to label it as a fake in case it is actually a genuine Gaunt badge. What did their officers wear?
Snap.

Fake Gaunt plaque et al.
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