Flaming Grenade confusio...

[Bill A]

In 1945, some debate arose regarding the number of flames on the grenade of the Royal Canadian Engineers. It was noted that the correct number was nine flames, two imposed on seven. But, there had been some variation during the war. The number of flames varied on the grenade badge worn on headdress (it was not indicated but this was likely the CFSC). Some badges had 9 flames, others 10. This was attributed to different manufacturers, who, in wartime haste, had not been made aware of the correct number.
To further complicate the issue, it was found that the number of flames had varied (like that of the Royal Engineers):

• 1900 - 8 flames
• 1904 - 10 flames
• 1911 - 9 flames

[WJ Miller]

Bill, is there some sort significance to the number of flames

[Bill A]

Hi Bill, The number of tips on the flames distinguishes artillery from engineer badges. The artillery traditionally have 7 flames and the engineers have 9.

[WJ Miller]

Hmmm. interesting - did not realize that... But is there any significance (historical/traditional or otherwise) to those specific numbers, 7 for artillery & 9 for engineers? Or is that just completely random?

Across a crowded room, could you actually tell the difference in badges? (count the flame tips!?). While interesting, this appears to be a rather fussy and seems a, head-scratchingly pointless detail The penny-pincher in me thinks that it would have been cheaper and easier for everyone just to get the same damn badge if they are that close in detail.

[Infanteer]

To the people wearing the insignia it can be important to be visually different from a completely different trade... some people couldn't care less about the fine details while others will get wound up if you don't have those same details correct. The same sort of debate goes on with regards to traditions... some say why bother and think the bottom line should be paramount and others will fight tooth and nail for these traditions to be upheld. I for one love traditions and revel in the small details that make the regiments/trades/corps unique.

[REMEVMBEA1]

Perhaps the Engineers should wear their badges with flames at the bottom to represent the way their bombs worked :-)

[Bill A]

I believe the artillery has 7 flames as they are the senior regiment. In historic terms, both the artillery and engineers used the "flaming grenade" as part of their tools of the trade. The artillery fired charged grenades from ordnance, while the engineers used charged grenades for demolitions and other engineer tasks.

[edstorey]

Here is a 1960s brassard which contains the RCE Grenade.

[Artynut]

In Major Campbell's book "The Dress of the Royal Artillery", page 75 shows three collar badges. fig.1 shows a collar badge worn since 1880 by the RA, RE and several Fusilier Regiments. In 1926 a new pattern badge was approved (A.C.I.515 of 1926) similar to that worn be RE, i.e. nine flames with a scroll beneath reading UBIQUE. In 1928 another change (A.C.I.414 of 1928) was made resulting in what we see today, this has seven flames. D.J.

[Artynut]

In my haste to contribute, I neglected to realize the original post concerned RCA, not RA, thus, my post may be disregarded. My apologies, D.J.

[Artynut]

Originally Posted by Artynut

In my haste to contribute, I neglected to realize the original post concerned RCA, not RA, thus, my post may be disregarded. My apologies, D.J.

OOPS, Sorry Bill, I meant RCE, not RCA