Constabulary Button maker ID Please

[JJ2]

Can anybody give some info on this Irish Constabulary Button, Maker appears to be MC RC & Co or MC RG & Co . can anybody give me a name for this maker and the time period he made buttons in and also the Constabulary who wore them

[JJ2]

Attachment 212006

Attachment 212007

sorry pics didn't load

[Hawthorn]

Still unable to see the pictures via your link I'm afraid.

Regards Simon.

[JJ2]

hope pics load this time

[altcar73]

I have several identical buttons, in different sizes. Mine are variously marked on the back "Rich Treble Gilt" and "H. Gilpin & Co. Dublin". Worn by the Constabulary of Ireland.

Dave.

[PeterMc]

What is the source for that Dave? I know that the CoI also used a shamrock surmounted by a Crown, within a wreath of oak leaves - but perhaps this was an officer pattern (I can't be definitive).
The simple Crown and Constabulary button may indeed have been an other ranks version or it may have been a generic police button manufactured in Dublin for sale elsewhere (colonies?). I've just never been able to pin it down myself.

[altcar73]

Peter,

Firstly, I doubt that there were ever any metal insignia (buttons/badges) produced in Ireland during the period we are talking about. The main production area was (and still is) Birmingham. That said, there were uniform suppliers in Ireland. Gilpin was probably one such supplier. Buttons would be marked with their name but made by a third party in Birmingham. Another large uniform and equipment supplier (but not manufacturer) in Ireland was (I think) John Ireland & Co. (Dublin & Belfast). They were principal suppliers of kit to the RIC (and others) for many years. Like Gilpin, they did not make badges & buttons, but did supply/sell them.

Back in the early 1980's, whilst visiting the RUC HQ in Brooklyn. I was shown a fantastic collection of police insignia which was then on display at the RUC Federation Offices. One display featured insignia etc. from the Irish Police forces. I noted in particular that their display of buttons included several of the type and pattern which we are discussing and were described as being worn by the Constabulary of Ireland. Several other "Irish" collectors have since that time confirmed that button use.

From a personal point of view, I've never taken the trouble to research that aspect. But, its interesting that the gent starting the thread does himself identify the button as being "Constabulary of Ireland". I hope this is helpful.

Dave.

[PeterMc]

Yes Dave you are correct, I used the term manufactured when I should have said retailed. From what I have been able to find out the principal maker (or were they retailers?) of metal adornments in the early Constabulary of Ireland/Provincial Constabulary days was Buckmasters, but this was principally for officers glit badges, buckles, scales etc. Metal or horn buttons is another matter.
I'm not trying to undermine the accumulated knowledge of other collectors (and I've known a few myself) but rather to pin down with facts why they believe a particular item is what it is.

[altcar73]

Peter,

I take your point. That said, I can't take the matter any further myself. Perhaps someone else may feel inclined to chime in with some firm evidence.

Dave

Ps. I've just recalled that the button features in contemporary reference books and is similarly described.

[JJ2]

2 different buttons made by Edward Jones Cork hill ,Dublin from 1815 to 1832 . Cork Hill st is at the gates of Dublin Castle . One says Constabulay which i take to be the "County Constabulary" which was the only constabulary around at that time and was more of a mounted military force than a police force . The other say "Police" which i take to be the "Revenue Police".
The Irish Constabulary replaced the "County Constabulary" in 1834

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by JJ2

2 different buttons made by Edward Jones Cork hill ,Dublin from 1815 to 1832 . Cork Hill st is at the gates of Dublin Castle . One says Constabulay which i take to be the "County Constabulary" which was the only constabulary around at that time and was more of a mounted military force than a police force . The other say "Police" which i take to be the "Revenue Police".
The Irish Constabulary replaced the "County Constabulary" in 1834

Whilst the buttons may have backmarks showing "Edward Jones etc", they themselves would have not have manufactured the buttons. The buttons would have been made (almost certainly) in Birmingham by a third party. Edward Jones were almost certainly retailers only, possibly supplying & making uniforms themselves onto which the buttons would have been sewn.

Dave.