Glamorgan Yeomanry

[41st]

Can anyone help on this one. I have an Officers' coloured FS cap to the above (shown below) which is missing the two small regimental buttons to the neck flap.
If anyone does have any of these buttons hanging around I would be most intersted to hear from them.
I've uplodaded my GIY & GY badges into an album for those who may be interested.
Hwyl,
Kevin

[Sonofacqms]

I hope to learn something from this thread, the badge shown on the FS cap is very like the 2nd Btn Monmouthshire Regt. Did the officers of the Glamorgan Yeomanry wear this badge as opposed to the POW feathers etc?

[41st]

Other way around in fact.
Don't forget that the Monmouthshire were not separated from the SWB until 1908.
The Glam Yeo dating officially as an Imperial unit from 1901.
Whilst the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Mons all wore their own silver, and in the case of the 2nd & 3rd Battns their own bronzed versions, I have not seen any hard evidence for the 1st Battn Mons wearing this pattern bronze badge.
A good enthusiatic Mons friend of mine is adamant that the 1st Battn did wear this pattern, however I have yet to see the proof.
The question of course is what did they wear on the SD cap? I think it was a green cord boss with the dragon on, but have yet to confirm this.
Examples of both the GY and Mon badges can be veiwed in my albums.
Hwyl fawr,
XLI

[Sonofacqms]

Thanks 41st,
Looked at your album and what a nice collection of badges, very well presented. Forgot that the Monmouths only came into being in 1908.

[sadler32]

Originally Posted by 41st

Other way around in fact.
Don't forget that the Monmouthshire were not separated from the SWB until 1908.
The Glam Yeo dating officially as an Imperial unit from 1901.
Whilst the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Mons all wore their own silver, and in the case of the 2nd & 3rd Battns their own bronzed versions, I have not seen any hard evidence for the 1st Battn Mons wearing this pattern bronze badge.
A good enthusiatic Mons friend of mine is adamant that the 1st Battn did wear this pattern, however I have yet to see the proof.
The question of course is what did they wear on the SD cap? I think it was a green cord boss with the dragon on, but have yet to confirm this.
Examples of both the GY and Mon badges can be veiwed in my albums.
Hwyl fawr,
XLI

Hi Kevin
I was also was intrigued by this one and thanks for the explanation. Your knowledge and collection of Welsh Regiments and badges really is impressive. Keep up the good work! I doubt very much if anybody has the Welsh Regimental collection of badges and knowledge as good as you have! I shall certaintly look out for the buttons you require when I soon visit my home county up north.
Diolch i chwi ynwaith eto am ddangos y gorau o Gymru.
Hwyl
Wyndham

[Tim GJ]

This is very similar to the side caps used when I was in the Monmouthire ACF Late 60's

[sean michael cronin]

Looks very similar to a R.A.P.C. /R.C.T. cap with Glamorgan Yeomanry badge attached. Cheers Sean.

[dubaiguy]

Gents
Following on from a thread by Badgecollector and a reply by 41st, I have revisited 41st's album on the Glamorgan Yeomanry today, but I'm still unclear when the two badges below would have been worn (assuming the OSD is a Glamorgan Yeomanry badge and not 1st Mons). I'm guessing the POW feathers superceded the Welsh Dragon..................

Can 41st or anyone with knowledge of the Glamorgan Yeomanry put me right. I would be very grateful.

(41st, do you think the dew claw that sticks up on the outside hind leg of the dragon has any significance - I haven't seen this on other badges purporting to be either 1st Mons or Glamorgan Yeo - perhaps just a makers variation?).

Thanks
Mark

[GriffMJ]

I think the O/Rs is post 1920?

[41st]

Mark,
As Griff has already pointed out, the left hand badge is purporting to be an ORs post 1920 pattern example.
However, despite the sweat holes to the rear of the title scroll I think it's a modern copy. If you compare it with the one shown in my album you will see the differences. The pattern of yours is the same as the many common copies offered for sale.
The Dragon is an Officer only badge worn from 1902 up until 1938 on service dress. They wore embroidered Dragons on No.1 dress.
As to the dew claw it just looks like a burr that hasn't been removed. Dew claws are at the back of the leg anyway (I have two hunting dogs).
Hope that helps.
Kevin

[dubaiguy]

Hello Griff and Kevin

Thank you gents for the dates, I appreciate the replies.

Kevin I understand your feelings about the OR's as I've always had my suspicions and now they are confirmed. I will check against your album tonight after work. There does appear to be a number of badges, yeomanry and cavalry in particular, doing the rounds with sweat holes that just aren't the full ticket.

Far from me to argue with a Welshman about the positioning of dew claws on dragons, but again yes it is probably just a burr.

One thing I do miss being here is the shooting syndicates I belonged to in Aberdeenshire. So good luck with the dogs.

Thanks again
Mark

[41st]

Mark,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. It is a worry that copy badges are now being put out with sweat holes.
Just a quick guide to the Glamorgan Yeomanry badges is that the feathers should have some 'depth' and not lie flat. It will make sense when you compare real and copy in hand.

Kevin

[41st]

I've aquired a few new examples to this unit and thought I'd post them before I rebuild the album.

The 1st & 2nd show a lugged post 1908 pattern example with the erased central title scroll. Unusual in that it is still lugged but as a small territorial unit not unheard of in not converting to shanks/sliders by that time.

For comparison I've shown a shanked example of the same pattern in 3 & 4.

Note the faint outline of the 'Ich Dien' to the motto scrolls of the PoW plumes. This unit did not use the motto as part of their badge and it shows that the manufacturer only partly blanked it off.

5&6 show a blackened version with the motto clearly visible.

[41st]

As I'm now finally getting around to rebuilding my Glamorgan Yeomanry album I thought I'd put up a couple of posts as I go clarifying what was worn and when, as well as showing what's right and wrong.

Staring with the 1903 sealed pattern, which was worn with only slight alterations up until the issue of the 1922 artillery pattern:-

1. Genuine OR's 1903 pattern bi-metal cap badge - front.
2. Modern copy - front.
3. Genuine OR's 1903 pattern bi-metal cap badge - rear.
4. Modern copy - rear.

As can be seen there is very little by way of similarity between the two patterns with the style of the plumes on the original being much deeper and better defined, the scrolls on the original separate from the bottom title scroll on the genuine example, the style of the crowns being wholly different and the ghost impression of the PoW's motto just visible on the title scrolls of the genuine example for starters.

In my opinion the modern copy has been modelled on the later 1922 pattern badge which it more closely resembles.

In addition I have yet to see a 1903 pattern, with the central "Imperial" intact on a slider. All examples to date being on lugs. That is not to say they don't exist, just that I haven't seen one.

After conversion to Territorial Yeomanry in 1908 the badges are found with partially erased central motto scrolls as shown in 5 & 6 below. The Lambourne variants do not have the partially erased title, rather a clear seeded central scroll.

They are found with both lugs and sliders on the post 1908 examples, see 5 & 6 below.

I'll deal with the Leek and Plume that was worn on the slouch hat c.1905-1908 under a separate post.

Hwyl fawr,
Kevin

[Rockape]

Hi Kevin,

I would like to contribute to this thread by adding some badges from my collection. I have a 1903-1908 badge with a slider. It looks as though the centre scroll has been rubbed down to lessen the word 'Imperial' possibly indicating that it was in fact worn by the user after the unit lost the Imperial status. I also have a Lambourne 1908 badge that seems by comparison a lower quality badge than it's predecessor and a post great war badge (1922). That badge has four circular brazing holes and yellow brass braise fixing the slider to the badge. Note that the slider is tapered.

Regards,

Garry