Printed economy SAS wings did they exist ?

[arrestingu]

..just curious if a printed canvas economy issue version of the SAS wings was ever produced and issued....
thanks
steve

[manchesters]

See this thread for your answer.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...=printed+wings

[JerryBB]

Examples (perhaps only 1) exist but no evidence they were ever issued

[Postwarden]

Some information on the printed badges from my forthcoming cloth badge book. The original sample was printed as by early 1944 all officially issued trade/skill at arms badges were printed - although usually replaced by privately bought embroidered examples.

At the time the Calico Printers Association, the only manufacturers of printed badges were fully occupied frantically producing printed arm titles for both the British and Canadian armies and as it was pointed out when the 2nd Glider Pilot badge was introduced, it was cheaper to produce a small number of embroidered badges than to produce printed versions.

As the record shows that the officially issued embroidered badges were not ordered until August 1944, any wings worn before then must have either originated in the Middle East or have been made unofficially in Britain.

With the formation of 1st SAS Regiment in early December 1943 imminent, Major-General Browning informed the War Office that he wished the SAS under his command to continue wearing wings of the pattern worn in the Middle East and North Africa but pointed out they must be ‘regularised’ and authority given for their manufacture in Britain. In reply the War Office asked under what conditions the wings were issued and requested a sample. When Browning, by now Commander, Airborne Troops, 21st Army Group, sent a sample ‘manufactured by a private firm of tailors, John Jones of Cairo’ and ‘bought by individuals out of their own pocket’ he proved vague on the conditions of its issue; ‘It is believed that the badge was never officially authorised in the Middle East although unofficially approved by C-in-C Middle East’ . Aware that the SAS wore their wings on the chest he pointed out ‘that once authorised it should be worn in same position as the parachute badge’.

Although supplies were not immediately available a telegram on 26th April 1944 from the War Office to the Commander, Airborne troops approved their issue. The prototype printed badge which was supplied by the Central Ordnance Depot, Branston was disliked and replaced by an embroidered version, its design approved on 27th July and an official order for 5,000 wings placed on 4th August 1944. Despite General Browning’s assurance that the wings would be worn in the same position as the parachute badge there is ample evidence that they continued to be worn on the left breast.

[JON188]

The one currently listed differs to Keith's.
I too was watching it
Regards
Jon

[HamandJam]

I know at least one Dutch dealer who produces the exact type of printed sas wings are listed on Ebay. The Dutch dealer Ebay name is theriflebrigade and he sells them as reproductions.




Cheers,
JB

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by HamandJam

I know at least one Dutch dealer who produces the exact type of printed sas wings are listed on Ebay. The Dutch dealer Ebay name is theriflebrigade and he sells them as reproductions.




Cheers,
JB

Which is the one in the thread I started that Manchesters linked to.

[Frank Kelley]

I thought that the Calico Printers Association was exactly that, simply a trade body, that simply oversaw the distribution of War Office contracts to the various actual manufacturers themselves.

Originally Posted by Postwarden

Some information on the printed badges from my forthcoming cloth badge book. The original sample was printed as by early 1944 all officially issued trade/skill at arms badges were printed - although usually replaced by privately bought embroidered examples.

At the time the Calico Printers Association, the only manufacturers of printed badges were fully occupied frantically producing printed arm titles for both the British and Canadian armies and as it was pointed out when the 2nd Glider Pilot badge was introduced, it was cheaper to produce a small number of embroidered badges than to produce printed versions.

As the record shows that the officially issued embroidered badges were not ordered until August 1944, any wings worn before then must have either originated in the Middle East or have been made unofficially in Britain.

With the formation of 1st SAS Regiment in early December 1943 imminent, Major-General Browning informed the War Office that he wished the SAS under his command to continue wearing wings of the pattern worn in the Middle East and North Africa but pointed out they must be ‘regularised’ and authority given for their manufacture in Britain. In reply the War Office asked under what conditions the wings were issued and requested a sample. When Browning, by now Commander, Airborne Troops, 21st Army Group, sent a sample ‘manufactured by a private firm of tailors, John Jones of Cairo’ and ‘bought by individuals out of their own pocket’ he proved vague on the conditions of its issue; ‘It is believed that the badge was never officially authorised in the Middle East although unofficially approved by C-in-C Middle East’ . Aware that the SAS wore their wings on the chest he pointed out ‘that once authorised it should be worn in same position as the parachute badge’.

Although supplies were not immediately available a telegram on 26th April 1944 from the War Office to the Commander, Airborne troops approved their issue. The prototype printed badge which was supplied by the Central Ordnance Depot, Branston was disliked and replaced by an embroidered version, its design approved on 27th July and an official order for 5,000 wings placed on 4th August 1944. Despite General Browning’s assurance that the wings would be worn in the same position as the parachute badge there is ample evidence that they continued to be worn on the left breast.

[HamandJam]

Jerry,

Ok noted.Same seller also makes some good copies of printed commando titles. He sells all as reproductions.

Cheers,
JB

Originally Posted by JBBOND

Which is the one in the thread I started that Manchesters linked to.

[HamandJam]

Great info Jon,

The SAS wing was also worn on the right arm and could only be worn on left breast after taking part in one or more operations behind enemy lines as "operational wings". It should be authorised by the CO first.An annotation for this would be made in the paybook.

Cheers

JB

Originally Posted by Postwarden

Some information on the printed badges from my forthcoming cloth badge book. The original sample was printed as by early 1944 all officially issued trade/skill at arms badges were printed - although usually replaced by privately bought embroidered examples.

At the time the Calico Printers Association, the only manufacturers of printed badges were fully occupied frantically producing printed arm titles for both the British and Canadian armies and as it was pointed out when the 2nd Glider Pilot badge was introduced, it was cheaper to produce a small number of embroidered badges than to produce printed versions.

As the record shows that the officially issued embroidered badges were not ordered until August 1944, any wings worn before then must have either originated in the Middle East or have been made unofficially in Britain.

With the formation of 1st SAS Regiment in early December 1943 imminent, Major-General Browning informed the War Office that he wished the SAS under his command to continue wearing wings of the pattern worn in the Middle East and North Africa but pointed out they must be ‘regularised’ and authority given for their manufacture in Britain. In reply the War Office asked under what conditions the wings were issued and requested a sample. When Browning, by now Commander, Airborne Troops, 21st Army Group, sent a sample ‘manufactured by a private firm of tailors, John Jones of Cairo’ and ‘bought by individuals out of their own pocket’ he proved vague on the conditions of its issue; ‘It is believed that the badge was never officially authorised in the Middle East although unofficially approved by C-in-C Middle East’ . Aware that the SAS wore their wings on the chest he pointed out ‘that once authorised it should be worn in same position as the parachute badge’.

Although supplies were not immediately available a telegram on 26th April 1944 from the War Office to the Commander, Airborne troops approved their issue. The prototype printed badge which was supplied by the Central Ordnance Depot, Branston was disliked and replaced by an embroidered version, its design approved on 27th July and an official order for 5,000 wings placed on 4th August 1944. Despite General Browning’s assurance that the wings would be worn in the same position as the parachute badge there is ample evidence that they continued to be worn on the left breast.

[Postwarden]

The Calico Printers Association was a Limited Company with a number of print works, its published history recording that the company had 11 print works in 1939 which during the war manufactured 230 million badges and flashes.

The existence of 11 separate print works - many of which had originally belonged to individual companies - accounts for some of the variations found in their products.

Jon

[Frank Kelley]

Good gracious me, absolutely fascinating, I had never even considered that, very much local, with it's headquarters just a stones throw away on Oxford Street in Manchester, remarkable, I used to be an avid collector of printed shoulder titles as a boy at primary school and had never given it a moments thought.

Originally Posted by Postwarden

The Calico Printers Association was a Limited Company with a number of print works, its published history recording that the company had 11 print works in 1939 which during the war manufactured 230 million badges and flashes.

The existence of 11 separate print works - many of which had originally belonged to individual companies - accounts for some of the variations found in their products.

Jon

[billy]

This has just sold on Ebay for £56 it looks good compared to the item listed earlier? It came from Belgium also! Look forward to your views all the best billy

[Ian Adams]

I am not sure. But I do wish I had bid for this item. I was willing to go into three figures but had trouble with my ebay bidding. I had one of these in my previous collection and this one looks just the same given some superficial staining. Ian

[pontecagnano]

The wing just sold on eBay has more in common with the Dutch copies available last year than Keith's wing.

The Dutch made wings were originally sold as copies. The attached images provide a good comparison. The top wing is the one that just sold. the centre wing is a good clear photo of the copy from the eBay listing last year and the bottom wing is Keith's.

There are a number of points of interest in the comparison of the canopies on the three wings:

1) The apex of the canopy is the same on the wing that just sold, and the copy, but different to Keith's.
2) The three lines on the canopy, representing the gores, all align with their respective rigging lines on the first two wings. On Keith's example the left hand line finishes to the left of the second rigging line.
3) on the first two wings, the right hand gore line on the canopy starts as quite a thick line and suddenly becomes narrow. On Keith's wing it is thick for its entire length.
4) Rigging line 3 (the centre one) is noticeably closer to line 4 on the first two wings but closer to line 2 on Keith's.

In addition to the differences above, the first two wings are a different colour to Keith's. The background on the first two is more of a muddy black than a dark blue. The light blue of the first two is more the colour of a modern wing. The wing that just sold looked very grubby. Given that these were prototypes and never issued or worn I would expect it to be much cleaner. Fading might be acceptable but it shouldn't be that dirty.

I think that the price it went for was also a good indication that there were doubts regarding its originality.

I may have missed the find of the decade but I'm not convinced!

Regards,

Graham