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  #1  
Old 14-09-18, 04:14 AM
Pink Pink is offline
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Default Canada Badge General List (Pre-unification Other Ranks)

Is there a Chocolate Brown version of the Pre-Unification General List Cap Badge for Canada....?...if so, what was its application...
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  #2  
Old 14-09-18, 11:30 AM
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Clarification, just to make sure we are talking about the correct badge. Pink, you are referring to the three maple leaves imposed on cross swords pattern?
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  #3  
Old 17-09-18, 10:34 PM
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Default 3 Maple Leaf badge...

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Clarification, just to make sure we are talking about the correct badge. Pink, you are referring to the three maple leaves imposed on cross swords pattern?

Correct Bill....3 Maples and X'd swords, Canada ribbon banner....slider attachment
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  #4  
Old 17-09-18, 11:58 PM
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3 Maples and X'd swords, Canada ribbon banner....slider attachment
Is this what you're asking about, but in brown plastic?

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  #5  
Old 18-09-18, 05:54 AM
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Default REPLY...

same badge, but it is not plastic...it is a chocolate coated metal overlay..badge struck like the white metal and 'brass' version (as you have shown) with correct relief on reverse...just have not seen one like it before...
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Old 18-09-18, 06:05 AM
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Default photos....

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Originally Posted by Pink View Post
same badge, but it is not plastic...it is a chocolate coated metal overlay..badge struck like the white metal and 'brass' version (as you have shown) with correct relief on reverse...just have not seen one like it before...

sorry...forgot photos....see attachments...
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File Type: jpg IMG_0593.jpg (48.5 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0594.jpg (49.9 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0595.jpg (24.5 KB, 12 views)
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  #7  
Old 18-09-18, 02:47 PM
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Interesting, first time I saw this badge in brown, OSD?
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  #8  
Old 18-09-18, 07:41 PM
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Never seen one in brown either. Cheers Brian
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  #9  
Old 18-09-18, 07:48 PM
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Yes, that is an unusual finish. First time I have seen it. Now, the mystery, what was it for. These badges WERE NOT the officers' general list badge.
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Old 19-09-18, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink View Post
Is there a Chocolate Brown version of the Pre-Unification General List Cap Badge for Canada....?...if so, what was its application...
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Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
Now, the mystery, what was it for. These badges WERE NOT the officers' general list badge.
The badge is not pre-unification, army or general list. It is the cap badge for soldiers undergoing combat arms training at the Combat Arms School (CAS) during the early 1970's.

After the unification of the Canadian military on February 1, 1968, the 11 commands of the three services were amalgamated and reduced to six unified commands. One, Training Command, became responsible for all rank basic and operational training up to the unit level. This included the sea trades, air trades (including pilots and navigators), combat arms trades and those trades common to all Commands (like clerks and cooks, etc).

With this new training system in place, combat arms training was centralized at the Combat Arms School (CAS) located at the newly named Combat Training Centre Gagetown. The CAS conducted operational training for officer and other rank artillery, armour and infantry candidates. This was an interim step between a candidate's basic training and joining an operational unit.

During basic training, officer candidates and OR recruits wore the Canadian Forces pineapple badge. When posted to a regiment, the regimental badge was worn. What was required was a cap badge for the interim step at the CAS. The badge in the opening post was the CAS badge. It would have been worn by personnel undergoing training. CAS staff wore their regimental badge.

I don't know why there are two different versions of the badge.

I have seen a photo of an infantry OR wearing one but have never seen it worn by an officer.

This training system, and the badge, didn't last long however. Within a few years operational training was taken away from Training Command and given to the appropriate operational Command. The CAS came under the control of Mobile Command. While officer training continued to be conducted at the newly renamed CFB Gagetown, infantry OR training was farmed out to the regiments. The CAS cap badge was replaced by infantry branch, artillery branch and armour branch cap badges.

That's all I know. When I attended the CAS as an officer candidate in 1977, the badge was nowhere to be seen.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #11  
Old 19-09-18, 11:39 AM
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The badge in question was authorized circa 1954 for wear by all soldiers who were not posted to a regiment or corps. For a small number of soldiers it was the badge they wore in certain roles as their permanent badge. Once on the strength of a corps or regiment, the soldier wore that respective badge. This is documented in files found in archives. There are also notes of the badge being used as a common denominator for all personnel on courses (not just Combat Arms) where they wanted to have the soldiers form a cohesive unit without the regimental identities.
The use of the badge in the manner you describe is not documented in any source I have seen, and it is noted the badge was not in great demand, as most OR recruits were trained in regimental or corps depots or schools. Finding documentation of the use in the manner you describe would be fantastic.
But the badge was not solely used for that purpose.
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Old 19-09-18, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
The badge in question was authorized circa 1954 for wear by all soldiers who were not posted to a regiment or corps. For a small number of soldiers it was the badge they wore in certain roles as their permanent badge. Once on the strength of a corps or regiment, the soldier wore that respective badge. This is documented in files found in archives.
Well that makes the first sentence in my reply totally moot. I was only ever aware of it being used during the early years of the CAS. I stand corrected.

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The use of the badge in the manner you describe is not documented in any source I have seen, and it is noted the badge was not in great demand, as most OR recruits were trained in regimental or corps depots or schools. Finding documentation of the use in the manner you describe would be fantastic.

But the badge was not solely used for that purpose.
As you can tell, badges are not my strong suit. Documentation is. I have copies of several orders for the organization of the CAS, however none of them deal with the cap badge or other insignia. I would suspect, and this is only my opinion, that the badge in question was used probably because it was available. In which case, finding a written reference to it might be challenging. However, in the past I've stumbled across obscure references before so one never gives up hope.

I'm going to look for the photograph I referenced and try to post it here.

Thanks for your info.

Cheers,
Dan.
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  #13  
Old 19-09-18, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan M View Post
The badge is not pre-unification, army or general list. It is the cap badge for soldiers undergoing combat arms training at the Combat Arms School (CAS) during the early 1970's.

. . .

During basic training, officer candidates and OR recruits wore the Canadian Forces pineapple badge. . . .
At one time, for a few years after unification and in the early days of the CF service dress green uniform, the badge (three leafs and crossed swords) was worn by OR recruits (those who were "affiliated" with the land environment) at Cornwallis for basic training. Those who affiliated with sea and air environments wore generic cap badges to indicate their environments. From a perusal of grad photos at the Cornwallis Museum site it seems that this lasted from 1969 until at least early 1973. By the time I did basic at Cornwallis shortly thereafter, we were all wearing the "corn chip" cap badge (or pineapple as Dan M calls it).

A couple of photos that show the wear are this of course 7004
http://www.cornwallismuseum.ca/_Medi...land_1843.jpeg

And this of an individual from course 6939
http://www.cornwallismuseum.ca/_Medi...6939_1103.jpeg
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  #14  
Old 19-09-18, 09:23 PM
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Hello Dan, thanks for the further clarification. The reason I would think documentation should exist somewhere is that the badges had to be refinished and there would have had to been an expenditure authorized for that. It would make sense that an existing inventory of badges were used, but the additional finish would have required some sort of paper trail.
As with many corps and branches, the change over to "unification" insignia was phased in as new branch badges were authorized. An associated question, is who wore the Infantry Branch badge? If the Tri-service badge was worn by recruits, when was the Infantry Branch badge worn?
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Old 19-09-18, 11:30 PM
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An associated question, is who wore the Infantry Branch badge? If the Tri-service badge was worn by recruits, when was the Infantry Branch badge worn?
When I did my service, in the days of red coats and muskets, the Infantry Branch badge was worn by officer candidates (without any other affiliation) going through Phase II and Phase III training at the infantry department of the CAS.

Staff at the department wore their regimental cap badge.

Infantry officer candidates came from various sources. Those from the military colleges wore the military college mailed-fist badge. Candidates from Militia regiments (and who were to return to the Militia) wore their regimental cap badge, headdress, and kilts, if appropriate. We even had candidates from logistics, administration, engineers, communication and intelligence undergoing Phase II infantry training wearing their branch badge. They went to their branch schools for Phase III.

I don't recall ever seeing a candidate from a civilian university ROTP at CAS, so I can't say what they would have worn.

Infantry OR's, in the days before battle schools, were trained by the regiments. Those at 1RCR were badged RCR after four (as I recall) weeks of training.

I could not say when the Infantry Branch badge was introduced, but it was there in 1977.

Cheers,
Dan.
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