British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Australian Military Insignia > Formation Signs and Unit Colour Patches

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28-10-14, 11:41 AM
badgecollector's Avatar
badgecollector badgecollector is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,239
Default thoughts on this colour patch

hi all
what are the thoughts on this colour patch?
I know its service corps of some type, but what period do you think it is?
bc
Attached Images
File Type: jpg aasc colour patch.jpg (46.8 KB, 94 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28-10-14, 01:00 PM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default

Rotate it 90- degrees anti-clockwise and its' a 2AIF patch - 8 Aust Div AASC. Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-10-14, 10:14 PM
badgecollector's Avatar
badgecollector badgecollector is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,239
Default

Hi mike
Thanks for the reply.
It certainly looks ww2 however it was the property of a distant relative who served in ww1.
12941 Archie Glen Gunner 3rd Div train Enlisted 18/4/16 RTA 23/6/19 embarking with the AASC.
This patch is with his WW1 medals, Spurs, some other leather kit all dated 1914/15/16 and heaps of photos and docs.
It is the families understanding that he never served in WW2 due to his age and being in an essential service. I also couldn’t find any ww2 activity. So could this be ww1 patch modified in some way?
I think it’s silk.
Anyway, interested in your thoughts
BC
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30-10-14, 11:00 AM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default

Given what you say it must be 3 Aust Div AASC, but why has it acquired a border? Since it's not apparently made of felt, perhaps it was made up by the family on his return to Australia in order to be part of a medal etc display? Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30-10-14, 10:29 PM
badgecollector's Avatar
badgecollector badgecollector is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,239
Default

Hi mike
Yes I’m guessing the same. I don’t have it in my possession at the moment. Will get it along with all the other items at Christmas. What they say is that it feels like silk which is the wrong material for ww2 but as you say the border has thrown me.
Cheers
BC
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-11-14, 03:31 AM
BWEF's Avatar
BWEF BWEF is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,646
Default

It looks to me to have a kd? uniform remnant as a backing.

If it was a 2AIF patch it should have a grey border
__________________
Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-11-14, 04:30 AM
badgecollector's Avatar
badgecollector badgecollector is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,239
Default

thanks again for the reply.
yes you may be right.
thanks
bc
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-11-14, 12:04 PM
lettman lettman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,071
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jackson View Post
Given what you say it must be 3 Aust Div AASC, but why has it acquired a border? Since it's not apparently made of felt, perhaps it was made up by the family on his return to Australia in order to be part of a medal etc display? Mike
Sorry, Mike -- WW1 AIF patches were never made of felt! They were usually made out of a light broadcloth material, and by the look of this one, I'd say it's about right for WW1. The background appears to be added afterwards, and isn't the 2nd AIF battleship grey background. WW2 patches were manufactured in both felt and cloth.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-11-14, 12:26 PM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
Member 2010-21- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 1,459
Smile

G'day BC

I had a look at the WW 1 colour patch chart today whilst volunteering at the local RSL museum.

To me its a 3rd Div ASC patch and is worn horozontal with the blue on top. Sorry I cant explain the backing, but that seems to be hand stitched where as if it was a WW 2 patch the stitching would have been done by machine.

Regards

Phil.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-11-14, 10:32 PM
badgecollector's Avatar
badgecollector badgecollector is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,239
Default

hi phil
i believe you are correct re it being a 3rd Div ASC patch and is worn horozontal with the blue on top.

i always believed there were never any borders on ww1 colour patches. well certainly not like the grey of ww2 however heres an interesting patch on a ww1 uniform in the war memorial collection.
what are your thoughts

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL28771/
bc
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-11-14, 07:28 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
Member 2010-21- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 1,459
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by badgecollector View Post
hi phil
i believe you are correct re it being a 3rd Div ASC patch and is worn horozontal with the blue on top.

i always believed there were never any borders on ww1 colour patches. well certainly not like the grey of ww2 however heres an interesting patch on a ww1 uniform in the war memorial collection.
what are your thoughts

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL28771/
bc
Hi BC, I have had a look at the photo and dont know why it looks to have a backing on the colour patch. I have saved the photo and will print it out and compare it to the colour patch chart at the RSL's museum on Thursday and will get back to you, eventually, Im just a little busy for the next week or so.

Regards

Phil.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17-11-14, 06:40 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
Member 2010-21- Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 1,459
Smile

Hi BC

Sorry to take a while to get back on this one, and I have since come across this photo whilst searching on line for other info.

First things first, this colour patch was not on the museums chart but Dr Google provided the answer, It states that it is/was 5th Divisional Ammunition Column, Royal Field Artillery, that should be Royal Australian Artillery.

Re the small out line around the colour patch, my suggestion is as follows.

The battle dress jacket is of the first pattern with a waist belt and a tounge and buckle. The toung and buckle were later done away with.

However, the origonal jackets had flat 4 hole buttons. This jacket has domed metal buttons, so its a later jacket.

The jacket shows 4 service chevrons on the right sleeve, however this is a brand new jacket, it hasnt seen 4 years hard service on the western front.

Therefore I'd say that the badges have been taken off an origonal jacket and attached to a new jacket for display purposes and when the colour patch was taken off, the sleeve was cut rather than the badge being unstitched and this gives it a border, as its clearly a WW 1 vintage uniform.

l hope that this helps, keep the discussion going.

Regards

Phil.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18-11-14, 03:06 AM
John L John L is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 481
Default patch

Phil,

Glyde show this patch as being either 3rd Di. with the white both up and down and 6th Div the way the it is in post one. All for Div. trains.

Did he get it wrong?

John
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25-12-14, 04:37 AM
fairlie63's Avatar
fairlie63 fairlie63 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Claremont, Tasmania
Posts: 1,366
Default

It may be noted that in 3 Div patches from WW1 the colour patch is issued stitched to an oval broadcloth backing. This is particularly prevalent in 3 Div arty patches. For those who have a copy of The 7th FAB Yandoo, check p37 of Vol III which has three photos of men in which this practice can clearly be see.
I did have one example (arty) in my collection and have a photo of a SD jacket still in the possession of the wearer's family (3 Div TM btys) where the patch is on an oval khaki backing.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26-12-14, 06:47 AM
fairlie63's Avatar
fairlie63 fairlie63 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Claremont, Tasmania
Posts: 1,366
Default

It appears to be a common practice for 3 Aust Div artillery patches of WW1 to be manufactured and issued with a khaki serge backing identical to the one on this 3 Div AASC patch.

I had one (arty) in my own collection and have a photo of a tunic still in the possession of the family of a 3 Div trench mortar btys fellow with this backing.

If you look at the photos in the roll of honour in Vol 3 of the 7th FA Brigade Yandoo, page 37 I think, at least three of the men pictured are clearly wearing 3 Div arty patches on backings. This was identical to the patch I had which I must admit I originally thought had been added on, although the patch itself was definitely original.

This AASC patch is the first non-arty 3 Div one I have seen but I did have a 3 Army Bde AFA patch with a very coarse khaki backing which was not uniform material. That patch itself was not the fine broadcloth you see in Army Clothing Department patches,it was also coarse.

I do have a scan of this latter but not sure what I'm doing in the uploading process coz the file size exceeds the site's size restrictions. I'll work on it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.