Royal Marines Artillery Cap Badge 1921-23

[Paddy]

Hello All

I have had a Royal Marines Globe & Laurel badge in my pending box for a while now which I was unsure about. I am more than happy that it is genuine but it differs from the usual collar badge or bottom part of the 2 piece cap badge. The laurel wreath ends in single leaves and the general shape is more rounded. I have now compared it with pictures of a genuine Royal Marines Artillery cap badge from 1921-23 and am convinced that it started off life as one of these badges but has at some stage had the grenade broken off, under magnification it is obvious that something has been broken off the ends of the laurel wreath. As this badge is very rare (and expensive) I think there is little likelihood that I will be able to obtain one so would like to have this one repaired. I have started this thread to see if any forum members can help with one of the following options.

1. Does anyone have a modern copy of this badge that they are willing to sell so I could use the grenade?

2. If a copy is unavailable does anyone have a copy or original that they are willing to use to make a mould of the grenade piece for me?

3. Does anyone know of anyone who could manufacture a replacement grenade?

4. Best option - does anyone have a genuine grenade that they are willing to sell?

Many thanks

Paddy

[cossack]

Hi Paddy,
The other thing to consider about your badge is whether it is very different to the standard RMLI cap badge as I once had one that had the bugle removed & belonged to a RM in the RND.
I suspect yours is a very different shape which is why you think it had the RMA grenade but just thought I would throw that into the mix as a possibility.

Regards...Andy

[Paddy]

Andy

Many thanks for your comments, the badge I have is totally different to the standard RMLI & RM badges plus there is no sign of anything ever having been attached to the top of the globe. I have attached a picture of my badge with a few areas circled which are identical to the RMA badge attached, these points are not on the standard RMLI/RM cap or collar badges. I would put money on the fact that mine is a RMA badge missing the grenade (unfortunately).

Paddy

[cossack]

Paddy,
Yep i see your point. Possibly the same thing happened to it & the owner took the grenade off if he was with the RND like on my one?
Btw, where was the one from with the grande on it?

Andy

[Paddy]

Andy

He won't have been in the RND, it finished a few years before this badge was supposed to have been worn (1921-23). The one with grenade was taken at the RM Museum on Wednesday, used to be on their large display board which is why some philistine had removed the lugs.

Paddy

[cossack]

That will teach me not to read things fully as you put the dates in your first post

[albert gunter]

Hi Paddy, your find makes interesting rereading. I totally agree with you, your globe and laurel in NOT the ordinary run-of-the-mill collar badge. It is in fact the bottom half of two distinct badges. You say you have looked closely at the two ends to the laurel, can I ask you to look again and be certain. Is there any trace of gilding, back or front? No gilding, Bombardier badge. Trace of gilding, two possibilities, Sergeants R.M.A. different grenade again. Last possibility, and a better find, a R.M. Engineer Officer cap badge, which came with a slightly larger grenade and was NOT attached to the laurel. I am lucky to have all these from the Hugh King collection and would send pictures if able. Ray has sent me instructions but as yet cannot manage it. Hope I haven't confused the issue too much. Regards Sticks R.M.

[Ray6930]

Paddy
The reply from Sticks Gunter is opportune. I picked up the badge in attached pictures at Farnham yesterday (I was specifically trying to find something like your posted one)

Prior to this post I thought the single leaf denoted officer's cap or collar badge - but agree that the shape of your is different, and that lured me into my search yesterday

Although the pictures are not brilliant, this is a gilt badge and it is the same rounded shape as yours. In the side by side with a collar badge one can see that the laurel wreath has tighter leaves, with no gaps and that gives it the rounded look (in my opinion).

It does seem to differ from yours in the spaces above & below the globe and at the shaping at the base of the wreath

From Sticks' comments above I am guessing this may be SNCO RMA badge. Not sure if he can confirm that - and whether it would be stand alone, with some sort of grenade and/or if only a collar badge.

Ray

[Paddy]

Originally Posted by albert gunter

Hi Paddy, your find makes interesting rereading. I totally agree with you, your globe and laurel in NOT the ordinary run-of-the-mill collar badge. It is in fact the bottom half of two distinct badges. You say you have looked closely at the two ends to the laurel, can I ask you to look again and be certain. Is there any trace of gilding, back or front? No gilding, Bombardier badge. Trace of gilding, two possibilities, Sergeants R.M.A. different grenade again. Last possibility, and a better find, a R.M. Engineer Officer cap badge, which came with a slightly larger grenade and was NOT attached to the laurel. I am lucky to have all these from the Hugh King collection and would send pictures if able. Ray has sent me instructions but as yet cannot manage it. Hope I haven't confused the issue too much. Regards Sticks R.M.

Sticks

Why is it never straightforward. I have looked again at my badge and K&K Vol 1. It looks like my badge does have some traces of gilding so I would assume it is more likely to be the Sgts version (K&K 1109), looking at K&K the museum badge I pictured at the start of this thread is a Bombardier's badge (K&K 1110). Are the globe & laurel parts of the badge the same for both Sgts & Bombardiers with the only differences being the shape of the grenade and the type of finish? I always thought the RME officers G&L would have been the multi-piece construction in gilt & silver but the only picture I've seen was the bronze version where the G&L was the collar size badge. I'll send you a PM with my email address as I would love to see the pictures of the badges you have and I can send you a few of the other pictures I took at the museum. I've attached a picture of the grenade from the 2 piece RMA badge the museum have, I didn't take a picture of the front of the whole badge as the G&L was a standard G&L. I'm not convinced it is correct as it has 9 flames which I would associate more with engineers as opposed to artillery. I've also attached a picture of another version of the RMA badge they have where the grenade is attached to the Globe as well as the wreath endings, heard somewhere that this was a later version, attached to the globe to give it more strength as the grenades had a tendency to snap off (like mine). Do you have pictures of the separate grenade and the obvious question is do you have any spare grenades for the Sgt's or Bombardiers badges?.

Ray - I have a few of the badges you have pictured, a pair of gilt ones and a GM one although it may have originally started life as a gilt version, I had always assumed they were just a variation of SNCO collar badge but I am more than happy to be proved wrong if they turn out to be a more exotic badge.

Paddy

[albert gunter]

Hi Paddy, just back from holiday. Read your last post re contact No. cannot find your number anywhere, did you send it ?? wait to hear from you. cheers Sticks.