Black Submariners Caps

[Guzzman]

As many of you will know, in July 2021 it was announced that Royal Navy submariners were to wear black caps instead of white.

Apparently, the reasons for this were to reflect their 'unique status' and their 'heritage of service during World War II'. Initially I hoped this was just a wind-up but I soon realised it was true.

Today I was sent a picture showing a serving Royal Navy WO attending an event at the Royal Hospital Chelsea (hence the sprig of oak leaves). He is wearing his newly issued black submariners cap. This is the first time I have seen the black cap being worn. What more can I say?

At least it's something else to look-out for for the collection!

Pete

[Nozzer]

Hi Pete,

I assume for Officers and Senior Rates this will be a removable cover? How is it going to be done for Junior Rates?

Andrew

[Guzzman]

Hi Andrew

No, this isn't a removable cover as they will be worn all year round. The ratings caps are the same, with a permanent black top. They are simply using the current design of cap but making them in black instead of white.

That's what I've been told anyway. If anyone knows better please let me know!

Pete

[Guzzman]

I stand corrected!

I've just found a Tweet from the Chief of the Defence Staff confirming that officers, senior rates and junior ratings WILL be issued with black cap covers.

Pete

[Frank Kelley]

A good photograph, but, what is the badge being worn below the oak leaves?

Originally Posted by Guzzman

As many of you will know, in July 2021 it was announced that Royal Navy submariners were to wear black caps instead of white.

Apparently, the reasons for this were to reflect their 'unique status' and their 'heritage of service during World War II'. Initially I hoped this was just a wind-up but I soon realised it was true.

Today I was sent a picture showing a serving Royal Navy WO attending an event at the Royal Hospital Chelsea (hence the sprig of oak leaves). He is wearing his newly issued black submariners cap. This is the first time I have seen the black cap being worn. What more can I say?

At least it's something else to look-out for for the collection!

Pete

[Alex Rice]

I think it is a nuclear sub patrol badge.
Cheers,
Alex

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

A good photograph, but, what is the badge being worn below the oak leaves?

"Always Ready"

Until now, submariners who complete a single deterrent patrol have been awarded a pewter pin while those achieving 20 or more patrols presented with a gold pin. A new silver award has been implemented to bridge the gap between the two, being awarded after ten patrols.

https://www.navylookout.com/royal-na...rrent-patrols/

.

[Guzzman]

My apologies for suggesting earlier that submariners were to be issued with black CAPS instead of black CAP COVERS.

I received information via stores at Devonport which stated black caps were to be issued. I must admit that black cap covers makes more sense.

However, I must admit that I see little real reason for these to be issued. Submariners already wear their dolphins (even trainee submariners now wear their black dolphins), deterrent patrol pins (where applicable), and ratings wear 'H.M. SUBMARINE' cap tallies and the letters 'SM' on their trade badges! I think that makes them distinctive enough without them having to wear black caps!

I know that the submarine branch suffered terrific losses during World War II and served heroically throughout the globe. But so did every other branch of the Royal Navy. Frankly I do not see the necessity for the Submarine Service to be singled out in this way.

And then there is the matter of cost. At a time when many items of uniform are being phased out and trade badges are only to be issued and worn on No. 1 Dress (basically just to save money) and when we are sending both our aircraft carriers to sea without aircraft because we simply don't have enough, is it appropriate to waste money on black cap covers for submariners?

Rant over. Permission to Carry On.

Pete

[Nozzer]

Thanks Pete, All very interesting.

[Frank Kelley]

Very useful, many thanks.

Originally Posted by mike_vee

"Always Ready"



https://www.navylookout.com/royal-na...rrent-patrols/

.

[royston]

Photographs of the "Bombers" Patrol badges. Silver or Gold depending on the number of patrols undertaken by the individual

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by royston

Photographs of the "Bombers" Patrol badges. Silver or Gold depending on the number of patrols undertaken by the individual

From 2019 :

Pewter - a single deterrent patrol .

Silver - awarded after ten patrols.

Gold - 20 or more patrols.

,

[royston]

Many thanks Mike. I have not seen the pewter badge, but a bit out of touch now having left the RN in 1993 and as a civilian contractor to the RN (teaching) in 2009.

John

[sailorbear]

Hi Pete, I work in HM Dockyard Devonport, Previously for the MOD Guard Service, and now for an industrial cleaning company, and have spent most of the last year sitting in a box guarding the access to HM submarines Talent and Trenchant, so have got to "sign in" a lot of the submariners, as for caps, many of the officers and senior rates do have black cap covers, some have black caps and some have plastic top caps that are black and I think may have been painted? Killick's and below, I have so far only seen black plastic topped caps, not sure if they are made that way or painted? Suspect there will be some standardisation with all being issued official black caps soon! When I first saw them, I thought they were foreign personnel on attachment!

Hope its useful

Tony

[Nozzer]

I believe one or two members of the forum are still serving, so they might be able to pop into slops and find what the official issue caps/covers are. The only company that I have found that are supplying these covers are

https://tw-bracher.co.uk/product/bla...ted-cap-cover/

It has been a long time since I have been to Queen Street in Pompey, so I don't know what tailors are still there? I think Baun & Co might still be going, so might be worth popping in to see what they might have? As for Plymouth, I haven't been back since the 1980's..... What is Union Street like these days?