Analysis of an offering....

[Bill A]

First, this post is about the item on auction, and how to parce an offering. The discussion IS NOT about the vendor.
A 5 CAD Canadian Armoured Corps tunic is on offer on ebay, http://www.ebay.com/itm/190619948749...84.m1438.l2649.
There are some serious questions about this tunic. The actual tunic appears to be a British or Indian made summer weight tunic. This is correct for 5 CAD as they drew on the Brit ordnance system once in Italy. 5 CAD was issued summer weight uniforms for the summer of 1944. The insignia raises questions. The shoulder title is printed, which would be correct for the summer of 1944. But the formation patch with the tank badge is not correct. 5 CAD had decided that the tank badge was not appropriate, as the units of the division's armoured brigade were former cavalry regiments. They did not wear this badge as did the infantry units converted to armoured units. Additionally, the tank badge had been found to be too large, overwhelming the formation patch, making the 5 CAD patch nearly useless. It wasn't clearly visible behind the tank badge. And this decision was made in 1942, two years before this tunic could have been worn.
Though not conclusive, it is also worth noting that the Italian theater Canadian insignia was most often worn on an armlet, not directly sewn on the garment. Summer dress was a temporary issue, and as such was turned into stores at the change of the season. It was not a permanent issue to the soldier, hence insignia on a slip-on economized on the potential damage to the clothing. These summer weight garments were turned in during the autumn of 1944, and the battledress was the dress order for the 5 CAD units for the remainder of the war.
The Warrant Officer Class III rank badges also raise a question. My research is not conclusive on this point, but it appears that WO III was, as represented, a crown worn on the sleeve. But, it is unclear what appointment this rank represented. Was it a squadron QMS? Some information suggests that the rank was not used in the later period of the war.

[WJ Miller]

Bill, as you mention the absurdly scarce rank of WOIII on the lower sleeve is somewhat preposterous. Also as you mention, the "tank" sleeve patch was eschewed by 5CAD in 1942 well before setting foot in the Italy. Everything very neatly machine sewn on. This tunic looks more like a theatrical costume than a 'wartime' artifact. perhaps someting made up from Grandpa's left over cloth bits and pieces... Without some further verifiable documentation from the vendor I would stay far away from this one (unless you can get it cheap for the parts!? - nice tunic and some nice patches on it )

[jim a]

Tunics are starting to go for alot of money... and in this field it becomes a case of buyer beware.... research is a defence against paying a premium for an item that lends itself to being rare. Has anyone ever seen photographic evidence that this combination was used during wartime... post war... maybe the vet put it on himself after the war... who knows.... but I do know it's very easy to put together any tunic you want... original unmarked tunics are available... so are the original shoulder flashes... and so is original thread.

There was a post awhile ago where one of the Forum members commented that the value of a tunic should be the sum of it's parts which I deem pretty good advice. I have a few tunics myself but they have come from local veterans that I have known... a couple are garage sale finds at considerably less cost that the sum of the parts valuation would come up with...

The other part of research is to check the seller for trends of the merchandise they sell... feedback and experience of others.

[Bill A]

Hi Bill, I was working on an edit re the rank badge when you posted.
As Jim says, research and more research is the key.
A note about the summer dress. As indicated these were temporary issue, and turned in during the fall of 1944. The likelihood of an Italian theatre issue tunic making it back to Canada are very very small. If the tunic was not turned in, the soldier would have been held liable and had to pay for the the garment. If he attempted to be deceitful about the return of the garment, he could have been put up on charges, and fined, put in detention, lost rank, reprimanded or some combination of these. Facing this type of consequence, it helps explain why collectors don't find summer dress tunics / shirts for the Italian theatre. The armlets, on the other hand, were the property of the soldier, and he was the rightful owner of that piece of the uniform.

[fougasse1940]

Just a thought, couldn't the wearer of this jacket got wounded and shipped back to Canada with it?

Rgds,

Thomas.

[Bill A]

Hi Thomas, Highly unlikely. If wounded he would have been sent to the various medical facilities, and his kit bag would eventually follow him. Depending on the nature of the wound, he may have convalesced in North Africa or Great Britain. If it was a "blighty", which would lead to discharge, he may have proceeded to Canada by a hospital ship. At some point if he was shipped back to Canada, he would have had to return temporarily issued kit. The uniform for wear to and from Canada was battledress.
The other inconsistencies of the tunic just don't add up.

[Phillip Herring]

The flashes look extremely new given the wrinkling, staining and fading of the tunic.

Phil

[edstorey]

Without having an opportunity to look at the item first-hand, the KD Jacket appears to be of Indian manufacture and perhaps even post-WWII.

As Bill has stated the badge combination is very strange and the likelyhood of badged Canadian KD returning to Canada from Italy is rare to near impossible.