25th Glengarry badge

[3dg]

Hello all
Opinions welcome please on the attached Glengarry.
Always a minefield I know.
I bought this a while ago from a reputable dealer, and from advice from a member.
It's made from lovely yellow brass, it's a good looking solid badge with good long loops.
However, what I'm worried about is the following,
A little bump left from the voiding on the rear part of the tail.
As above on the top of the title strap.
As above on the top curl of the 2.
As above on the right base of the crown, two bumps.
Small dot below the D.
We're all Glengarry badges perfectly voided? Or do some have lumps and bumps like mine?
I like the feel of it, or is it a Fox?!
Thank you all for your time

Chris

[Luke H]

A copy in my belief.

[Markus Bodeux]

I have only a few pre-territorial Glengarry Badges in my collection and very few experience.
Like you i worry about the numerous small dots or "bubbles", only on the obverse. For me a sign that this badge was casted in a silicone mould. The bubbles appear when the silicone hardens and the small air pockets can no longer rise. If you use the mould, they will be filled with the casting material.
Also the tear-off-edges doesnt look really sharp and thin, more like casted.
And i dont like the lugs, those i have seen on original badges are all from yellow brass, not copper, and feetless.
Dead Spartan has listed a nice original, Code:75090
I will have a look in Carman´s book this evening if he states e-w or n-s lugs.
Just my 2 cents ......

Regards
Markus

[3dg]

The Blackadder quote, "I think the phrase rhymes with clucking bell"!

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Markus Bodeux

Dead Spartan has listed a nice original, Code:75090

Afraid I would not touch that one with a barge pole either Markus. Whilst the front is better there are for me several red flags.

Note the lack of reverse detail esp. between 3-6 o’clock, very similar to Code: 57818 on Minden Militaria - which is an obvious repro!

Also the E-W loops do not sit easy with me here.

Just my opinion.

[Markus Bodeux]

Unfortunately Carman does not provide any information about the position of the loops.
Most "garter-type" badges are described with "top and bottom" or "vertical" fixings, but there are some exceptions with "side loops".
Luke, i agree that the mentioned badge on Dead Sparten has a little bit weak details on the reverse, but i can´t judge if that is already a death sentence.
There are two badges with brass north-south loops for sale at the moment,
British Army Badges 58220 and Dead Spartan 74287. Both come obviously from the same die and show the quality you would expect.
Dead Spartan 75090 comes from an other die, Minden 57818 from a third, obviously fake.
In my opinion there were different makers between 1874-1881, and so of course also different dies, qualities and i guess also different position of loops.
My personal oppinion is that there is not only one genuine badge, but differences and changes in the period 1874-1881 are possible and probable.
Admittedly, the two with n-s loops look very good, Minden is for sure fake.
And sorry Chris, yours still a casted fake, not an old "Fox"-restrike.

Regards
Markus

[Luke H]

We must agree to disagree.

I certainly would pass a death sentence on Dead Spartan’s badge.

To my eyes the Minden and DS badge are the same die. Albeit both images are less than ideal. It would be quite surprising for two separate dies to have lost so much reverse detail in the exact same areas.

I do agree however that certainly makers variations must likely exist in the time range for many gg’s.

[Markus Bodeux]

I think in the end I have to capitulate.....and agree.
At first glance I saw completely different faces, manes and crowns of the lion, but after staring at the pictures for 30 minutes I admit.. it could be the same die with the edges reworked differently and one of the lions was less or more polished ... frustrating but true.

Regards and best wishes for all,
Markus

[3dg]

What's the option on the British Army Badges one please?
I'm going to avoid Glengarry badges, shame, because I had a display planned for my KOSB.
I don't want to be stung again.


Chris

[3dg]

So angry with myself for not checking with the forum earlier, been stung big time!

[Frank Kelley]

I think, if bought from a reputable dealer, simply send it back, I
would not buy a badge with loops like those if offered as original, because very clearly it cannot be,
This sort of thing is ongoing with the vast amount of fakes on the market and often they are sold by "reputable" dealers, I got caught out by one such man as a teenager and this individual went on to be an militaria consultant for a well known London saleroom, put it behind you and move on.

Originally Posted by 3dg

Hello all
Opinions welcome please on the attached Glengarry.
Always a minefield I know.
I bought this a while ago from a reputable dealer, and from advice from a member.
It's made from lovely yellow brass, it's a good looking solid badge with good long loops.
However, what I'm worried about is the following,
A little bump left from the voiding on the rear part of the tail.
As above on the top of the title strap.
As above on the top curl of the 2.
As above on the right base of the crown, two bumps.
Small dot below the D.
We're all Glengarry badges perfectly voided? Or do some have lumps and bumps like mine?
I like the feel of it, or is it a Fox?!
Thank you all for your time

Chris

[Alex Rice]

Hi Guys
I went through a lot of discussions with my one and only early glengarry badge quite some time ago.
Another indicator is the weight. If I remember correctly, the genuine ones should weigh about 15-16g. Repros which are cast are often in the 20+g range.
Cheers,
Alex

[49lassiepen]

Luckily all mine were vetted by Jeff Mc Williams obtained one of the last few he kept from his collection as he stated 3rd scarcest glengarry

[3dg]

Thank you all for your comments guys, much appreciated.
As you said Frank, move on!

Chris