34 Armoured Brigade FS

[badjez]

I think most of us are familiar with the formation sign that Howard Cole attributed to 34th Armoured Brigade- the mailed fist and mace on a red/yellow shield (see photo).

If the attached link is consulted it shows the frontispiece of the Brigade history, as reproduced by Naval & Military Press. On this is a blue and black diablo, of the design attributed to all the other Armoured Brigades. I cannot see blue/black assigned to another Brigade The thought crossed my feeble brain that his may have been the original FS adopted by the 34th. It would seem reasonable to presume that initially all the Brigades adopted diablos, and 34th went their own separate way subsequently.

Can anyone enlighten me please.

Stephen.

https://www.naval-military-press.com...igade-1941-45/

PS- if anyone has either the printed or Brabant weave versions of the 34th Brigade FS to sell/ swap I am interested.

Stephen,
Super post.
As an ex Gloster I only recently became interested in the world of armour due to writing a book about the cloth formation badges worn by the various Gloucestershire Regiment battalions AND converted units during WWII.
Our old 6th Glosters became 44 RTC / 44 RTR and 50 RTR soon followed. It was whilst researching these two units that I became aware of the word "diabolo" and it's significance within the WWII tank brigade world.
My initial purchase of Howard Cole's super book seemed to explain everything to this former Infanteer, and I learnt that the 21st ATB Diabolo was yellow. Easy - simple.
However, thanks to WO information discovered by Mike Jackson, and follow up work by others including 'Fearnaught' and 'RAC1944' on this site, suggests that it was in fact dark blue and NOT yellow!
As a former Infanteer, I know that we like to keep things simple (!) and so the ubiquitous Tank Brigade diabolo, in different colours for each Brigade seemed to be a stroke of genius on the part of our armoured friends. No complicated heraldic, commanders initials or symbolic interpretation badges needed, all of which often require complicated or costly production, just two (or one) piece of felt and a tin or two tins of paint needed to kit out a Brigade, at home or in the field. Even moving brigades would take 5 minutes to change all Insignia. Genius! You have the common colours of red, blue, green, brown, yellow, black, white, etc, etc... Then you could go into different combinations of these colours. Give me five minutes and I could come up with countless different Tank Brigade diabolo combinations. I'll just make a note of it and have it published. Bingo! What could go wrong?
So why then are we still confused by a simple shape and it's colours? I know it was a turbulent time in our history, and I know mistakes are made. But how did dark blue ever become yellow?
What I do know is that I'm so very proud of all fellow collectors who strive to get these important historical facts verified and corrected, because without you, and the efforts you go to, this misinformation would prevail. In the short time I have been a member of this forum I have learnt so much from so many different likeminded individuals who think nothing of sharing what ever information they have with complete strangers for the greater good of all.
I do hope we can crack the diabolo mysteries, once and for all. Ken

[badjez]

Ken,

Your comments appreciated.
Are you a member of the Military Heraldry Society. There are many senior members of it who know a lot but don't use the internet so rely on pen and paper.

PM Postwarden or check out the website.
http://militaryheraldrysociety.com/index.html

Stephen.

[rac1944]

Stephen,

You're absolutely correct, 34TB did have the black/blue diabolo prior to the mace badge. The history you mention states the diabolo was worn up to about May 1944 when they adopted the 2nd Army shield for the Normandy invasion and some time soon in the bridgehead they adopted the mace shield, so perhaps from July 1944? What I've not been able to pin down is whether 34ATB, i.e. prior to becoming 34TB, wore the black/blue diabolo.

As to other TBs, 21TB changed from a diabolo to the Gremlin with diabolo badge in June 1944 and 25TB changed to a shield based design but they also morphed into an engineer brigade at the beginning of 1945.
John

[fearnaught]

Hi, John is correct that it initially wore the diabolo but when it changed from Army Tank Brigade to Tank Brigade on joining the new mixed divisions, 1st then 43rd they wore the divisional signs with arms of service stripe. In the Autumn of 1943 the mixed divisions were abandoned and the 34th became an Independent Brigade under 12th Corps H.Q. If anyone has details of what they wore at this point I would be keen to hear. When they went to France, as John said, they were wearing Second Army signs. They changed to the "mace and shield" sign in Normandy and became the 34th Armoured Brigade. The red and yellow was chosen as the original regiments were all R.A.C. regiments. In the photos I've shown the history with my 34th badges, I'm not sure where the painted shield fits into the time scale of wear, I'm inclined to think earlier than later as the 9th RTR history shows the same design which is also available as a Brabant weave, hope this helps Mike

[badjez]

Thanks all,
Your help appreciated.

Stephen.