To review BARHAM Cap Tally

[3t4]

Please, HELP me understand if it is real.
The medals and the frame are from one family.
Do you think they did belong to the same person?
The guy served in Royal Sovereign during WW1 (1st Battle squadron).
The BARHAM belonged to the same squadron.
Would be very grateful for any opinion!
HAPPY NEW YEAR AND ALL THE BEST!

[slick_mick]

This might be best answered on a medal collecting rather than a badge collecting forum?

Mick

[Alex Rice]

Hi 3t4
My feeling is that they wouldn't be to the same person. If the same family, then likely a father & son. If it was the same person he would have either remounted the group to include all the medals, or put them all together in the same frame.
Cheers,
Alex

[Markus Bodeux]

I am not very experienced with british war medals, but the cap tally "speaks to me".
It is not an official supplied tally from WWI-period, those were woven with letters in different style. The letters were narrower and the weave very flat (see picture). This tally with "erased" and wider letters and fullstop is typical for private purchased tallies from the 1930s-1950s.
The recepient of the medals was an officer if i am right, and so he did not wear a cap tally since he was a cadet. May be he or some person from the family bought it as a souvenir to display it with the medals.

Regards
Markus

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by 3t4

The medals and the frame are from one family.
Do you think they did belong to the same person?

One family but possibly not the same person.

From a BBC article :

My father was killed when HMS Barham was torpedoed in the Mediterranean and sank after a cataclysmic explosion in November 1941. Four years later, my mother married another naval officer, Commander J.S.Dove, RN, OBE who became a wonderful stepfather to my sister and me.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peo...a2213902.shtml

The father Surgeon-Commander E.R.Sorley, RN was lost on HMS Barham early in the war.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peo...a2294110.shtml

And the stepfather was Commander (retired) John Scott Dove, O.B.E., R.N.

http://dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/in...ohn_Scott_Dove

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[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by mike_vee

The father Surgeon-Commander E.R.Sorley, RN was lost on HMS Barham early in the war.

Biography from HMS Barham Association site :

Surgeon Commander ERNEST ROBERT SORLEY, who is presumed to have been killed in HMS Barham on November 25, 1941 was the youngest son of the late John Tower Sorley, M.A., and was educated at the University of Aberdeen, where he graduated M.B., Ch.B, in 1923. He proceeded M.D. in 1935 having taken the D.P.H. in 1928. He entered the Royal Navy as surgeon lieutenant in 1925, and served in HMS Malaya in the Mediterranean and in the Centurion until 1928, when he was appointed to Plymouth Hospital. From 1929 to 1932 he was in the Enterprise in the East Indies, and for the next three years at the naval hospital in Bermuda. After a year at Chatham barracks he was appointed to Singapore in November 1936. He was promoted to surgeon-commander in March 1936, and joined the British Medical Association in 1937.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by mike_vee

And the stepfather was Commander (retired) John Scott Dove, O.B.E., R.N.

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 17 JULY, 1919 :

To be Officers of the Military Division of the said Most Excellent Order:—

Lieutenant John Scott Dove, R.N.
For valuable services in H.M.S'. "Royal Sovereign," 1st Battle Squadron.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...upplement/9108

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[3t4]

Thank you so much for sharing with us your amazing story!

I understand that the medals in the frame belong to the father of the guy.
Would be very interested to find out what medals Commander J.S.Dove got during the WW2 (considering him taking part in all these operations)

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by 3t4

I understand that the medals in the frame belong to the father of the guy.
Would be very interested to find out what medals Commander J.S.Dove got during the WW2 (considering him taking part in all these operations)

I'm not sure how much "active" service he would have taken part in ?

World War II

Dove saw some service in the war, but his mental fragility soon limited him to shore service only when he was diagnosed with hypomania at Royal Naval Hospitals, Chatham and Barrow Gurney.

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[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by 3t4

To review BARHAM Cap Tally

Please, HELP me understand if it is real.

Regarding the tally , it is not my area but I'm sure others can help.

One point to consider is that each year there has been a Memorial Service (in Westminster Abbey) on the Saturday closest to November 25th attended by a dwindling number of survivors and relatives of those lost on the ship.

His family also took part in a 'wreath laying' service in 2003 , chartering a boat to take them to the co-ordinates where the Barham is at rest.

Having pinned my father’s medals on my jacket, I spoke a few words about why we had come this far in small sailboat, to this very spot. We had come as a to pay our last respects after so many years.

After a few words and a prayer I threw the wreath on the waters ending with the words “Let no member of the family ever forget” and “May God rest his soul”.

NB: Either the medals were removed from the frame for this service or the frame was assembled after this date.

Either way , I have a feeling that the family would have tried to source an original tally .

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[3t4]

Another MYSTERIOUS frame from the same family.
Bought another frame with epaulettes, cap badges and buttons from two different regiments. Looks like Father's and Son's insignia.
Could belong to another branch of the family???
Do you think it can be possible to find the names if they are related to the same family?!

Thank you so much for sharing the previous information - is is SO EXCITING!!

Maybe YOU can do more MAGIC?!

[mike_vee]

You posted this before but didn't mention any family .

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ghlight=forfar

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[3t4]

When I posted it - HOW could I imagine that it was possible to find out to whom it did belong...
All I knew was the name on the medals..

[3t4]

Interesting video about Panjandrum.
https://www.military.com/video/opera.../1123500263001