Royal Warwicks J. R. Gaunt & Son variant?

['Ticker' Riley]

As some Forum members will know my main area of collecting, and research, is the Leicestershire Regiment’s tiger cap badges, though I do have an interest in the badges of a few other regiments including the Royal Warwicks; hence why I am posting up a composite picture (front & back) of this badge:

Warwicks Gaunt.jpg

I am hoping that someone can confirm, or otherwise, that this A/A badge was actually worn and when please? Although unmarked I believe it is the J. R. Gaunt & Son makers’ variant, but wonder why it is not marked as such, and if any such badges do bear that manufacturer’s name? There may well be answers to these questions in Chris Marsh’s excellent book, but I do not have a copy myself, and I don’t know if he is still active on here. It may also be, of course, that all of this has already been discussed, in which case perhaps someone would be kind enough to direct me to such a thread? Thank you.

Regards

Martin

[Mike H]

Hi Martin,ive never come across a marked example of a Royal Warwicks ano badge. As far as i know nobody else has either.
I would put it as a collectors item rather than a genuine issued item.

[Luke H]

I believe it’s a ‘Gaylor fake’ per the recently coined term.

See here…

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=79802

and here…

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...563#post516563

[bess55]

Martin, Im with the chaps on this one. Its a badge that does turn up, unmarked and always immaculate condition. Highly likely a Gaylor made affair - there are other cap badges made in a similar way. Its possible they were made for a reunion or something, but doubtful.

The only badge I know that was worn, was by the Warwickshire Fusiliers in anodised alluminium. Distinguishable from other RRF badges as it has small round wire lugs. Worn with the orange and blue hackle.

[leigh kitchen]

3dg may chip in here, the round lug version of the Fus Bde / RRF Badge was worn by the regiments of the Fusilier Bde, the later flat pierced blade type lugged by RRF, but he's discovered some interesting info concerning dates of use.

[grey_green_acorn]

The ‘round lugged’ early Fusilier Brigade badge.

Tim

[Alan O]

I am afraid that is is from the same Gaylor stable of fakes such as the large FIfe and Forfar and the Loyal Suffolk Hussars Yeomanry cap badges. They have been sold for £50+ in the past as genuine badges. Chris Marsh states that an a/a badge was authorised but he was unable to find a gneuine one so showed a bi-metal one in his book.

[dubaiguy]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

The ‘round lugged’ early Fusilier Brigade badge.

Tim

So if I've got this right - the Warwickshire Fusiliers coming from the Forester Brigade to the Fusilier Brigade continued to wear the blue over gold (orange colour) hackle. But did they also wear their 'old' a/a antelope collars with the new 'round lugged' Fusilier badge?

I realize that later, in the formation of the RRF all battalions would be common in wearing the red over white hackle and grenade collars.

Mark

[bess55]

Mark, its my understanding that the generic fusilier badge - round lugs - was worn within the Brigade with the antelope collars, along with their own hackle. As Leigh rightly states above, the round wire found for Fusilier Regts within the Fusilier Bde - hence used by Royal Warwickshire Fus.

[leigh kitchen]

The Fusilier Brigade wore collar badges of the same design as the cap badge, and the St George and dragon within crowned wreath button design, the button giving way to the R Warks Crown, royal garter and antelope design after the R Warks joined the Brigade.
As with the cap badge, there's a slight difference in appearance between the Fus Bde and RRF era collar badges due to different dies being used.
I've not heard of the RNF, R Warks, RF and LF collar badges continuing in wear by the regular battalions of the four Regiments within the Brigade but can't state with certainty that they weren't.

These images were posted on another site some years ago.

Edit: image of collar dogs added, earlier pattern on the lef (acquired during the 1970's while I was in 1 RRF), later pattern (issued to me in November 1972 at Dept The Queen's Division) on the right.
The differences aren't very obvious in the photo, but the left hand badge has a slightly larger and deeper flame pattern and the gap between ball and flame is slightly taller than the other.

[bess55]

The only info I had was when I purchased the hackle, a couple of lugged badges and a couple of pairs of the antelope collars, in a job lot years ago now. No doubt you're right Leigh, the photos tell.all - I should keep better notes, but that was the info I was given at the time.
It may have been rhe case that they were worn initially (i.e. waiting for RRF collars for example). Another odd one, in that the anodised Royal Warwickshire collars exist and are genuine issue I'm sure, but the anodised cap badge is fake.

[leigh kitchen]

Could be the antelopes lingered for a while, I'm not sure which book, perhaps one of Major Edward's mentions the Fus Bde standardising cap and collar badges and buttons.
I was going to say that a Charles Stadden print shows a Bandsman of the R Warks Fus in Blues wearing the grenade collar badges but as I type I'm wondering - I'd better check.

The antelope collar dogs feature in other threads being worn by 1 RRF or 3 RRF antelope handlers on the lower sleeves.

Edit: the Stadden print showing R Warks Fus wearing the Fus Bde collar dog, 1963 (the print dates to no later than late 1972 - early 1973).

And just because I have the image, the Fus Bde badge which came with the R Warks Fus Royal blue over old gold hackle.

[bess55]

Ooh, I like that, thanks Leigh!

[dubaiguy]

Leigh
Thanks for adding the photo of the difference in the collars. Yes, I can see the difference and will need to go check mine, before I inadvertently offload an earlier pattern.

Getting back to the a/a antelope collar, perhaps they were only worn when part of the Forester Brigade. Though here I think we have only a couple of years when a/a collars might have been available before dispersal into the Fusilier Brigade. Perhaps more likely to be wearing metal ones or even a mixture of the two.

Not uncommon to find in a/a though...............................
Mark

[Mike H]

And now poor old Bobby has been consigned to a gastro burger outlet and has been replaced with a bulldog i believe.