RM ENGR INVENTIVENESS

[Alan O]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCARCE-WW1...IAAOSwLpdW-T7V

Looks like a RM collar and a universal grenade to me. Can fault the inventiveness of some!

[1664]

Alan,
I'm sure they are, both worth about £1 each I guess. The fun being - that these are indeed the pattern of badges worn by RM Engineers during WW1. I found at least a dozen photos showing the badges being worn in caps in this manner and knew that as soon as "Personal Distinctions" was published that they would then appear on the market.

The bronze version used as an illustration in the book has a very good provenance, prior to publication I had only ever seen one of these for sale, since, dozen or so!.... I wonder how long it will be before the one piece badge appears!
Yours
John

[Alan O]

Whilst researching the RND, I was told that the RM Medical Corps also wore the collar as a cap badge. I also found the photo of the collar in use on the GWF to a RM Engr: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...owtopic=176682 It's the collar but no grenade.


As you say provenance is everything. I may add a collar to my RM collection but chances are it would never have been on a hat in its life.

For those who are unaware of the book John refers to, here it is:

http://royalmarinesshop.com/military...-insignia.html

or you can pay twice as much on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Personal-Dis.../dp/1908123095

[Alan O]

Leigh Kitchen, who is also a forum member, has previously posted officers wearing the grenade above a bronzed collar but attributed them to RMA rather than RME on another forum:

http://gmic.co.uk/topic/37275-the-royal-marines/?page=4

The officers' grenades are of the RE/RA style (without the ubique scroll) and are not the universal grenade that started the thread off.

For members information an excellent pdf on all RM badges is here: http://www.rm-badges.com/images/Cap%20Badges.pdf

Alan

[1664]

I've seen the photo, it is very interesting, I suspect that you can just make out lettering on the grenade on the left - always assumed that this was RME and that the officer in the centre was RMA but the other two RME - would be great to track the original image.
Have seen planty of faked badges using the small collar badge you illustrate, careful examination usually shows solder/braising marks where two badges have been made into
Yours
John

[1664]

I should have also said, the badges being worn as cap badges are indeed collar badges - no separate orders were placed for a distinctive badge and occasional requests were sent to divisions to deliver collar badges to the 'new' units.

[Alan O]

John

Thanks for that. Is there any evidence at all for ORs' unofficially adding a grenade, of any type, to their caps above the collar badge to mimic the RME officers' cap badges? Of the half dozen RME photos I have seen they are just wearing the collar?

Alan

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Alan O

For members information an excellent pdf on all RM badges is here: http://www.rm-badges.com/images/Cap%20Badges.pdf
Alan

It is odd and interesting that the RE grenade with the scroll removed is shown in the images on the above link, as being worn 1921-1923. The badge was not authorised until 1926, maybe the Museum staff know different.

Marc

[Alan O]

Marc

The Bakelite dates of 1939-45 are off too as the contract for the cap badges was not placed until August 1945. But to be fair it's an outstanding collection and reference and much more comprehensive than I could do


Alan

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Marc

The Bakelite dates of 1939-45 are off too as the contract for the cap badges was not placed until August 1945. But to be fair it's an outstanding collection and reference and much more comprehensive than I could do


Alan

I am not knocking the website, just pointing out that in some cases badges used in museum displays and references are not correct and original to the period said to be used.

Marc

[1664]

The attached PDF shows the badge worn by officers of the Royal Marines Engineers during WW1. This unit is different to the Divisional Engineers of the RND, who were also marines. I will post separately the page of ORs badges

[1664]

This is the one that should answer the question on evidence of grenades being worn over collar badges by the RME.
Exceedingly rare set of badges that are exceedingly easy to fake - I suspect the photos are worth as much as the badges!
Regards
John

[Alan O]

That's fantastic. The photos are probably worth far more than the badges!

[Alan O]

My RM/ RND badge sheet now includes a RM RE marine's cap badge and a RM RE 2 part cap badge.

They are of course identical to a set of RM collars and a universal grenade because those are the badges used on the RM RE other ranks caps. Total cost £6 so please don't pay over the odds for such badges.

As 1664 points out the bespoke RME cypher on grenade were the officers bronzes and it is those badges that have a value.

[CAM]

Just found this thread. Great, thanks (although I couldn't locate Alan O's link to http://www.rm-badges.com/images/Cap%20Badges.pdf)

Chris