No.2 Commando metal badge

[elwe23]

Hi all,

My first post on this great forum. The subject has been touched already but I bought on Ebay this No 2 Commando metal badge for Beret use. After reading multiple pages over here it looks like it's probably one for the commando association post 50's.

Originals S S & OR seem to have been made out of cutlery.
That being said the exemples on this forum have small letters S on the side and not big ones as you can see on several photos of No 2 Commandos: here, here, and here.

So where are the original officers ones with taller S gone ? Haven't seen any real ones in collection or on internet (there is one in Peter Taylor's book, but the S are aligned to the handle, which seems not to be the case on old photos: there are aligned further down, handle exceed at the top and the blade seems longer. Also is there any rear photo somewhere ?
This one seems to exactly match the old photos.

This one might be a post war one ? S are aligned at the bottom handle. Maybe as they were made of cutlery all are different ?

The one I bought looks repaint and might be cut from the title commando above made for veterans. I would love to have your thoughts on it. Shall I cancel my order ? It wasn't expensive.

Would be good to have a final word on this subject.

Thanks for your help and time.

[Bill A]

Hi elwe23, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by elwe23

Hi all,

My first post on this great forum. The subject has been touched already but I bought on Ebay this No 2 Commando metal badge for Beret use. After reading multiple pages over here it looks like it's probably one for the commando association post 50's.

Originals S S & OR seem to have been made out of cutlery.
That being said the exemples on this forum have small letters S on the side and not big ones as you can see on several photos of No 2 Commandos: here, here, and here.

So where are the original officers ones with taller S gone ? Haven't seen any real ones in collection or on internet (there is one in Peter Taylor's book, but the S are aligned to the handle, which seems not to be the case on old photos: there are aligned further down, handle exceed at the top and the blade seems longer. Also is there any rear photo somewhere ?
This one seems to exactly match the old photos.

This one might be a post war one ? S are aligned at the bottom handle. Maybe as they were made of cutlery all are different ?

The one I bought looks repaint and might be cut from the title commando above made for veterans. I would love to have your thoughts on it. Shall I cancel my order ? It wasn't expensive.

Would be good to have a final word on this subject.

Thanks for your help and time.

Good to see another member with Commando interests - yes, it can be a bit of a maze. No.2 Commando is a case in point. I am fortunate to have acquired a few attributed examples over the decades, and they remain my benchmark.

I will post examples of - Officer - note SS either side on handle and multiple part construction

Other ranks - I will not describe the features to look for, as it provides fakers their intelligence. I would not encourage discussion, the images are self evident, and I hope help.

The existence of unit made badges - some out of cutlery - does muddy the water. Some of the patterns we see are rather a little over stylised. I do have a presentation frame given to Major General Sturges during a visit - where the Officer type badge with SS is not standard - but great care has to be exercised. I also have a series of variants but will only post the attributed examples here as guidance.

The badge with COMMANDO over the top is indeed an Association badge - discussed on this forum numerous times as can be seen through use of the forum search facility.

Hoping this helps - it would take many pages to discuss variants, so please accept this post as relating to standard attributed examples only

[elwe23]

Thank so much Mike for the rare photos and your reply.
No.2 Commando is indeed super intriguing, and apart (the only one with a beret unit badge along with 1er BFMC n4 C).

I understand your point for the fakers, maybe it should be shared in private. I don't know if fakers are around here. The pure value of history for me has to be it's raw authenticity.

Your attached SS officer badge seems to be the same as in Peter's book first in second row. Really good to see the rear of it. It is a beautiful piece of art.
Is it from your experience & knowledge a standard one ? Yes as you said it seems there are many variant and unique ones. Probably the first ones were all unique handmade and made of cutlery. At some point they must have standardise their shape as all unit does (for SS & OR) I would imagine.

The only thing that question me is portraits of Lieutenant Nicholl, Whitfield, Mason, Bavister are all the same, nearly similar as the one you posted, except the dagger exceed more at the top from the S (and the S seems a tiny bit smaller). You can see it straight and in colour in the Frame of Lieutenant Nicholl here.

Do you know exactly when the commando one was made for the association ?
So the one I purchased is clearly a copy/or an association one. Did they do ones without 'commando' for the association purpose ? I don't see a lot of modern ones without the title. Maybe they are less faked than certain badge like parachute regiment or 1er BFMC n4 C ?

Thanks

[elwe23]

Those ones on Ebay are going for a crazy price considering there are from the commando association period or copies. All listed as original WW2:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/124831698686...Bk9SR665xa30YA

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/124809665579...Bk9SR665xa30YA

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/125058831940...Bk9SR665xa30YA

and this one is probably one where the S and Commando have been removed:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/275466294708...-desc-maincntr

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by elwe23

Thank so much Mike for the rare photos and your reply.
No.2 Commando is indeed super intriguing, and apart (the only one with a beret unit badge along with 1er BFMC n4 C).

I understand your point for the fakers, maybe it should be shared in private. I don't know if fakers are around here. The pure value of history for me has to be it's raw authenticity.

Your attached SS officer badge seems to be the same as in Peter's book first in second row. Really good to see the rear of it. It is a beautiful piece of art.
Is it from your experience & knowledge a standard one ? Yes as you said it seems there are many variant and unique ones. Probably the first ones were all unique handmade and made of cutlery. At some point they must have standardise their shape as all unit does (for SS & OR) I would imagine.

The only thing that question me is portraits of Lieutenant Nicholl, Whitfield, Mason, Bavister are all the same, nearly similar as the one you posted, except the dagger exceed more at the top from the S (and the S seems a tiny bit smaller). You can see it straight and in colour in the Frame of Lieutenant Nicholl here.

Do you know exactly when the commando one was made for the association ?
So the one I purchased is clearly a copy/or an association one. Did they do ones without 'commando' for the association purpose ? I don't see a lot of modern ones without the title. Maybe they are less faked than certain badge like parachute regiment or 1er BFMC n4 C ?

Thanks

There are examples of die struck Other Rank and Officer patterns, of varying sizes. If you look at the images I posted carefully, you will see common characteristics I look for in determining badges (NOT Die Struck) I am happy with. I have yet to find a 100% attributed die struck badge of either Officer or Other Ranks, but do not discount volumes of production may have demanded a move to die striking.

I think fakers access all good sites including this one - sorry, but I am ultra cautious in sharing sensitive information.

You ask a good question regarding when the association badge may have arisen - my hunch is when Jack or Tom Churchill were Presidents. These dates were - Jack: 1957-58 and 1968-70; Tom 1950-51 and 1976-78 - I think the most likely would be Jack's later term - but this is very much a hunch. It would be useful to come across Association Newsletters advertising merchandise. You probably know, this grew to quite a range over the years, including cloth badges based on Commando Group sign with COMMANDO in white over the top, and the SS COMMANDO badges you provide links to.

If the link works, you will find Henry Brown's history of the Association here https://www.commandoveterans.org/sit...c%20latest.pdf


Hoping this helps
Mike