V111 Recce

[slick_mick]

I think the important part of the thread Bill posted is this comment:

"After personally talking with some ex-members of this distinquished regiment... it was definately established that no variety of their badge existed and those found bearing the word Canada on it (are) reproductions. Beware of any VIII Recce badge containing the extra scroll with Canada on it as it does not deserve a place of importance in your collection. Also note that other repros exist but the stem of the maple leaf is facing the opposite dicrection than illustrated. (The authentic badge has the oval on the stem base facing left.)
Last edited by Bill A; 09-06-09 at 02:28 AM. Reason: clarified post"

Mick

[James S]

Yes an interesting comment indeed and good enough for me to have already requested a refund. So much for Mazeas? We all make mistakes... Thank you Bill and everyone for saving me money once again. This forum and all its contributors are a most valuable resource and I should be and will be paying better attention to it in the future.

Cheers,
James

[slick_mick]

Could we add this picture (and of the front of the badge) to the VIII Recce section in the Canadian badge area as a reproduction badge?

I think this way we can reduce the chances of fellow collectors getting themselves a dud badge. Every little bit of info helps.

Mick

[Bill A]

My mistake, I missed posting the second link on the 8 Recce badge...
The pattern with the scroll Canada is at the end of the Mazeas string.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ghlight=mazeas

[Doug N]

I may be standing all alone in left field here, but I think there’s a real possibility that that badge is good. Here’s my train of thought:

I’ve seen about five C40a VIII RECCE Canada scroll badges, counting this recent ebay UK one. All of them have been cast badges; poorly finished & relatively crudely made. Most people assume these to be repops because of their crude construction. I have a slightly different spin – I think that all the scroll badges are crudely done & suspect that none of them were “factory produced”. In other words, I doubt the existence of that holy grail – a C40a badge with details like a fully struck up reverse, neatly riveted overlay, etc.

The scroll badges are shrouded in mystery, & I don’t claim to have any answers. I think it’s fair to say that collectively, we don’t know. They reality is that we don’t know who made them, or when, or why. This is one of those badge things where there’s lots of speculation, but no definitive answers.

Clearly, they were never intended to be a reproduction of the no-scroll pattern. Far too different in size or detail to fool anybody. If they were made as sweethearts or souveniers, why were they lugged? Very few ladies would want to stab lugs through their fancy clothing. They’re kind of rough for an officer’s badge (but you never know) & gilt & silver examples of the scroll-less badges do exist. If they’re a re-union or association badge, why have no veterans come forward to say so? These badges have been around for several decades after all. Like I’ve said, lots of questions – no answers.

The intriguing thing about the ebay UK badge was that it was maker marked. With some research ( & luck) this might answer the ‘who’ & ‘when’ questions. With generous luck it might also answer the ‘why’ question.

Let me paint a picture of ‘what ifs’ here. Suppose the badge really was sterling. Suppose you could establish that the maker was in business circa WW2. Suppose you could establish some connection between that maker & the Regiment. If all that fell into place, it would be a research coup. The badge would be the Rosetta Stone of a great enigma, & easily worth double what it sold for.

[Phillip Herring]

I think I would feel more confident if there was a photograph somewhere showing it being worn.
I've seen other badges that could best be described as fantasy pieces that have taken on a life of their own.
In this case, when in doubt, don't.

Phil

[slick_mick]

I'd also be curious to hear from any long time collectors - people who were collecting back in the 1960s and 1970s and get their opinions and also to see if copies of the badge were seen then.

Mick

[Phillip Herring]

Good point, Mick.
I went to my first Mazeas book on Canadian badges, 1920-1950. The book was published in 1970 and on page 15 he has C40a, the 8th Recce with CANADA scroll.
It doesn't confirm if or when it was worn, but at least it was known to be in existence forty years ago. It isn't some recent creation.

Phil

[Bill A]

Lets add to the spin on this badge. The issue of the original, no "Canada scroll" cap badge is well documented in period records. Would not a variety, if ordered under the authority of the regiment, not be documented as well? Yet, nothing has been found to support the Canada scroll issue, either in official docs or in anecdotal records. Including period photos.
Mazeas was documenting badges in the 70's, and as has become apparent, has many errors.
The quality of the badge is not the same as the usually found badge, but a hallmark does not make it period, or issue.
This is one of those badges that begs provenance.

[barriefield-brian]

All I can add to this is that at the last 8th recce reunion I asked several vets about the scrolled badge and they had never seen one. It is possible someone had some made as one fellow reportedly had some badges made postwar from Dutch Guilders. Brian

[James S]

Originally Posted by Doug N

I may be standing all alone in left field here, but I think there’s a real possibility that that badge is good. Here’s my train of thought:

I’ve seen about five C40a VIII RECCE Canada scroll badges, counting this recent ebay UK one. All of them have been cast badges; poorly finished & relatively crudely made. Most people assume these to be repops because of their crude construction. I have a slightly different spin – I think that all the scroll badges are crudely done & suspect that none of them were “factory produced”. In other words, I doubt the existence of that holy grail – a C40a badge with details like a fully struck up reverse, neatly riveted overlay, etc.

The scroll badges are shrouded in mystery, & I don’t claim to have any answers. I think it’s fair to say that collectively, we don’t know. They reality is that we don’t know who made them, or when, or why. This is one of those badge things where there’s lots of speculation, but no definitive answers.

Clearly, they were never intended to be a reproduction of the no-scroll pattern. Far too different in size or detail to fool anybody. If they were made as sweethearts or souveniers, why were they lugged? Very few ladies would want to stab lugs through their fancy clothing. They’re kind of rough for an officer’s badge (but you never know) & gilt & silver examples of the scroll-less badges do exist. If they’re a re-union or association badge, why have no veterans come forward to say so? These badges have been around for several decades after all. Like I’ve said, lots of questions – no answers.

The intriguing thing about the ebay UK badge was that it was maker marked. With some research ( & luck) this might answer the ‘who’ & ‘when’ questions. With generous luck it might also answer the ‘why’ question.

Let me paint a picture of ‘what ifs’ here. Suppose the badge really was sterling. Suppose you could establish that the maker was in business circa WW2. Suppose you could establish some connection between that maker & the Regiment. If all that fell into place, it would be a research coup. The badge would be the Rosetta Stone of a great enigma, & easily worth double what it sold for.

Doug, stand alone no longer!

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...t=13131&page=2