3 new officers badges

[Peter Brydon]

Dave,
Firstly is the collar badge hall marked, it looks like a makers mark rather than a hall mark but I may be wrong ?.

The first pattern official osd badge ( call them pre 1926 for simplicity ) had the horse standing directly on the scroll.
There is also a silver and gilt version for full dress.

The unofficial pattern has the horse on a torse on a scroll and is similar in design to the post 1926 cap and collar badges. The title on the scroll is "The Kings" in capitals ( again for want of a better description ) and generally without the apostrophe in " King`s".

The post 1926 cap and collar badges have the title "King`s" in old english ( for want of a better desription )

There are a number of examples of the unoffficial collar in various metals ( including silver ) and there are variations with inverted commas in different positions on the title scroll ( see my album for some examples )

I agree sometimes C.C. provides too much information in too short a space and I have had to re read some of the chapters on the collars worn by the Rifle Volunteers and V.B`s to work out exactly what was worn and when.

Hope this is of some help.

Peter

[davec2]

Cheers Peter,

Thanks for going to all that trouble, I think I follow you, I'll re-read it a couple of times.

I guess when it comes down to the reality of all badges, there is still plenty of room for ' flexibility of thought '.

I suppose the main thing is that in the King's collar badge, bc has got himself a nice example ??

Thanks again.

Dave.

PS, you're right about the marks on the scroll, now I've studied them it looks more like J&C than a hall mark.....

DC.

[badgecollector]

hi guys
thanks for the comments. makes interesting reading.
the kings badge looks and feels like silver but its not halmarked. its stamped [B&P]
any ideas of this manufacturer?
bc

[badgecollector]

Originally Posted by badgecollector

hi guys
thanks for the comments. makes interesting reading.
the kings badge looks and feels like silver but its not halmarked. its stamped [B&P]
any ideas of this manufacturer?
bc

hi guys
a quick google search found this under silver makers marks
[B&P] Bent & Parker 1869..1882, 1909
(registered Aug 1863) Fob medal, military pouch mounts, whistle Military ornament makers, Northwood Street, Birmingham

looks like peter, 8thfoot, is spot on. well done mate
bc

[davec2]

J&C - B&P,

I must learn how to blow photo's up, as for Peter, yes he is usually right, along with Julian, that's why I don't argue the point with them, know what I mean ??

Dave.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by badgecollector

hi guys
a quick google search found this under silver makers marks
[B&P] Bent & Parker 1869..1882, 1909
(registered Aug 1863) Fob medal, military pouch mounts, whistle Military ornament makers, Northwood Street, Birmingham

looks like peter, 8thfoot, is spot on. well done mate
bc

Bent & Parker badges are always a nice find and usually to a very high standard. In 1916 the were taken over by Gaunt's.

[Peter Brydon]

I think the silver version of the unofficial Kings collar badge was worn by the 1st V.B. ( and possibly other battalions )

There is a picture of a Senior NCO of the 1st V.B. (in Westlake "The Territorial Battalions" ( page 88 ). He appears to be wearing an all silver example of the badge.

P.B.

[revdougal]

The current set of RAChD badges (less Jewish) were announced by the Chaplain General in the RAChD Journal for July 1930, under the title of "Our New Motto and Badges".
K&K states that the Cap Badge Sealed Pattern was indeed 12 Dec 39, but Gaylor persisted in saying the badge was introduced in 1940; there are photographs aplenty during 1930s showing both old and new cap badges being worn. Tailors to RAChD during this time also published pictures of the new badges.

I have a note that the Officiating Chaplain's badge was authorised by AO 278/1930; but I assume it was for both the Scarf badge (large) and for the lapel (small) of the civilian cleric. It is unfortunate that the brooch pin on the large on is not N/S: being E/W it tends to "flop" forward with it weight!

[Jibba Jabba]

Bent & Parker badges are always a nice find and usually to a very high standard. In 1916 the were taken over by Gaunt's.

Agreed. Perhaps the badge is hallmarked?

P.S. Mike your ok to put my pic in the gallery.

[KLR]

The Hall Marks are actually for Birmingham 1924 !
Yes, I was led to believe that B&P were taken over by G in 1917 or so but thanks to some excellent research by two Forum members we now know it was 1925.

[RAChD]

Originally Posted by Luc

I'm not entirely sure. The motto "in this sign conquer" was also shown on the cap badge that replaced the cross with imperial crown badge. The new badge was sealed december 1939 but it was worn before that by British Chaplains. So I'm guessing that the officiating Chaplains badge is from around the same period.
For reference, pictured below is the larger version.

The new badge was certainly introducted in 1930 in the British Army, and mentioned. I am sure I have seen it mentioned in an ACI but cannot recall where I am afraid.
The miniature version of the scarf badge for an Officiating Chaplain was for wear in civilian clothes. Nice find. I have the queens crown mini but would love a large or small kings crown one
The description of the badges is also in the 1934 Dress Regulations for the Army page 131, so why there is a persistence to say it is 1939 or 1940 pattern I have no idea, yet another example of research becoming myth becoming accepted 'fact'.
Regards
Matt

[Luc]

Matt, I'm really sorry to hear you are looking for a small officiating badge as I just sold one on ebay.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by KLR

The Hall Marks are actually for Birmingham 1924 !
Yes, I was led to believe that B&P were taken over by G in 1917 or so but thanks to some excellent research by two Forum members we now know it was 1925.

That's interesting. So they grabbed BP & Jennens around the same time. Where's the monopolies commision!!

[KLR]

1925 was a good year for Gaunt, apart from B&P and J&Co they also took over Twiggs (about whom I don't know much). They also increased their shareholdings in Gaunt Canada - which leads to the interesting question of how "independ4ent" this subsiduary was before 1925 ??