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  #16  
Old 10-06-21, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Nope, neither link worked for me! Maybe cause I'm in the US???

Terry
Hi Terry, thanks for replying. I was asking about any information on Murphy Jeweler in Canada. They made the actual Sterling transport command and ferry command pilot wings of which I now have both after a 12 plus year search for the ferry command alone. I want to write a paper and am asking anyone if they have information on Murphy jeweler or Jewelers in wartime Canada. I saw a bracelet marked Murphy Sterling the other day when I was looking it up but I can't find anything on a company linked to that maker Mark, Murphy Sterling

Last edited by Mtnman; Yesterday at 09:41 AM.
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  #17  
Old 10-06-21, 06:48 AM
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I would like to know if anyone has information on Murphy Sterling as a manufacturer of insignia and jewelry in Canada? I am trying to do a write-up on these transport and ferry command wings. Thank you so much for any information you can pass on about Murphy Sterling mark
Having found a couple of photos , in my opinion they are two different marks :

MURPHY : Jeweller - Can't find any listed in Canada but did find one in Pennsylvania.

Sterling : Purity mark - In America, articles marked sterling must contain a minimum of 925 parts silver for every 1000 parts of material. By far the vast majority of qualifying items made in the US ca. 1860 to 1970–especially items made before 1940–are marked sterling or sterling silver.

Unfortunately I can make out the 'stamp' next to 'Sterling' , it appears to be either a single letter or symbol.


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  #18  
Old 10-06-21, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Nope, neither link worked for me! Maybe cause I'm in the US???

Terry
Hi Terry , the links are from 2012 and , as with a lot of photo sharing sites , have probably expired or the user has closed their account.

This happens with a lot of links from old posts.

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  #19  
Old 10-06-21, 09:23 AM
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I saw a bracelet marked Murphy Sterling the other day when I was looking it up but I can't find anything on a company linked to that maker Mark, Murphy Sterling
Found the bracelet and while it has MURPHY above STERLING the badges have STERLING on top , which is a basic silver mark.

The marks look more like those of a Jeweller/craftsman than a larger company/manufacturer.

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  #20  
Old 10-06-21, 10:09 AM
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I wanted to revisit this thread which already has some of the primary material I'm alluding to, referenced. I have finally, after 12 plus years of searching, found a RAF ferry command Sterling wing with perfect enamel additionally.
Was it you who picked up the wing off ebay yesterday?

It is strange that Murphy does not really come up on an internet search, not even in relation to being taken over by another company.

RAF Ferry Command started life under the Canadian Pacific Railway Air Services Department, before being taken over by the Ministry of Aircraft Production. In June 1941 because of the need for American aircraft to be handed over to a military organisation, RAF Ferry Command was born. The crews were initially all civilians from a wide variety of backgrounds, and they wore bullion cap badges and cloth wings, similar to RAF and RCAF but with no crown and with the letters 'FC' in the centre.

As they moved on to the metal badges several companies were involved. Wings were certainly produced by 'Murphy' of Montreal, although I am certain I have seen wings also produced by 'Scully'; cap badges were produced by Scully (in chrome and silver) buttons by Murphy and Scully in white metal and chromed metal, while lapel badges for wear on civilian clothes seem mostly to be made by Birks.

In the case of Murphy wings, to begin with they don't carry a 'hallmark' as such. They have the makers name 'Murphy', and the term 'Sterling' (a mark of silver purity). I'm not sure what the mark next to the 'G' of Sterling is, but its seemingly not recognised as a silver hallmark, possibly because the wings are not pure silver.

Wings were produced both with broach pin fittings and screw posts, on both the pilots wing and the aircrew wing. You will see on mine that the 'Murphy' and 'Sterling' are stamped separately, being 'Sterling Murphy' on one and 'Murphy Sterling' on the other.
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File Type: jpg 20210610_100606.jpg (33.7 KB, 13 views)
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  #21  
Old 10-06-21, 10:21 AM
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A silver and enamel cap badge made by William Scully Ltd.

Note the makers name to the reverse and the Roman centurion helmet makers mark. Also the silver retailing nuts, also marked sterling and with the Scully makers mark.
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File Type: jpg 20210610_111441.jpg (62.0 KB, 8 views)
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  #22  
Old 10-06-21, 12:14 PM
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The only thing I can find about "Murphy's of Montreal" refers to the large department store that was sold to Robert Simpson Company of Toronto in 1905. The store continued to operate under the well-respected John Murphy & Company name. In 1929, it was renamed Robert Simpson Montreal and all its assets were sold to Simpson's Limited, which demolished the building and built a new store covering the width of the block.

Regarding buttons , I can find no photos/references to Murphy but examples by Scully and Gaunt :

Quote:
three large Royal Air Force Ferry Command Buttons (white metal, maker marked "W. SCULLY LTD. MONTREAL" on the bronze cores, 23 mm, intact loops); four small Royal Air Force Ferry Command Buttons (silvered bronze, maker marked "J.R. GAUNT MONTREAL" on metal cores, 17.3 mm, intact loops)
Is it possible that people previously saw the 'MURPHY' stamp on the silver badges and automatically associated it with Montreal ?

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  #23  
Old 11-06-21, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Is it possible that people previously saw the 'MURPHY' stamp on the silver badges and automatically associated it with Montreal?
In his book 'Eagles Recalled', Warren Carroll shows these wings and notes they are marked 'Murphy, Montreal'. I'm not sure how accurate that it (as all those I have seen have been Murphy/Sterling or Sterling/Murphy) but it is one source. The book has a number of errors both in the text and the captions, and the RAF Ferry/Transport Command section isn't extensive, but it can't be ignored.

I think there are other examples of Canadian badges out there which are 'Murphy Montreal' marked too.
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  #24  
Old Yesterday, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Padre View Post
In his book 'Eagles Recalled', Warren Carroll shows these wings and notes they are marked 'Murphy, Montreal'. I'm not sure how accurate that it (as all those I have seen have been Murphy/Sterling or Sterling/Murphy) but it is one source. The book has a number of errors both in the text and the captions, and the RAF Ferry/Transport Command section isn't extensive, but it can't be ignored.

I think there are other examples of Canadian badges out there which are 'Murphy Montreal' marked too.
MURPHY > MURPHY,MONTREAL > MURPHY of MONTREAL

It's easy to see how an 'assumption' could become a "fact" but , like you , I can find no examples with a Montreal mark.

I did find examples of the later KC versions , both Ferry Command and Transport Command , on a dealer's site that are listed as "By Murphy of Canada"

ww2wings shows examples of the earlier badges (Murphy, Sterling/Murphy with Hallmark) but doesn't show rear of badges , it also has a KC Ferry Command one (STERLING BIRKS) but again no rear view.

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  #25  
Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM
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When Ferry Command was established it was, with a handful of exceptions staffed by civilians, and probably for that reason the pilots wing and aircrew wing have the 'Astral crown' which amongst other things can represent civil aviation. As such, all of the silver Ferry Command wings, and the later Transport command wings have the Astral crown. (As the war went on an increasing number of service crews became available, wearing their own uniforms, to the extent that by the end of the war it was mostly service personnel, and it had been incorporated into the RAF as No. 45 Transport Group).

All the wings with the 'Kings crown' are the small lapel badges, about 1 inch across. The crown is incorrect. These were all made by Birks, who were jewellers.
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  #26  
Old Yesterday, 09:51 AM
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To all of you, a very sincere and heartfelt hats off with a bow of respect. Thank you so much for clarifying your thoughts and the extent of information you gathered regarding Murphy Sterling marks on the transport command and ferry command wings. Might I say, splendid examples each and every one, set to picture for our enjoyment. What a blessing to see all that history coalesced into what those wings pictured represent, regarding the pioneering spirit of those men who risked everything to use the strength and initiative of their manhood to put down the slavish tyranny of national socialism. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to give me the information I need to complete my paper on these wings.....
And yes, that was me who picked up the wing off of eBay after a decade plus long and arduous search from the US. I have a great deal of respect and passion for RAF history and the preservation of these types of tiny monuments to the men who made it what it is today.

Last edited by Mtnman; Yesterday at 09:57 AM.
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  #27  
Old Yesterday, 11:13 AM
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All the wings with the 'Kings crown' are the small lapel badges, about 1 inch across. The crown is incorrect. These were all made by Birks, who were jewellers.
Thanks for the information , as the photos didn't show scale or rears it was difficult to judge size.

It is interesting that the small lapel badges were made by a jeweller as it could support my theory that the earlier badges were also made by a jewelller rather than a badge manufacturer , especially as the MURPHY STERLING mark also appears on a bracelet (see post # 19).

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