British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Headdress

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 07-06-21, 05:43 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 2,195
Default

King died February 1952 , old (King's) badges would be used until new ones (Queen's) could be manufactured.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted & Spares for sale/swap
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-06-21, 06:34 PM
Freddo Freddo is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Arezzo (Italia)
Posts: 6
Default

thank you very much, I take advantage of this post to show you some badge I have
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20210402_194855.jpg (34.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 20210402_194908.jpg (33.4 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20210402_194916.jpg (35.3 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 20210402_194928.jpg (35.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 20210403_183916.jpg (46.5 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-06-21, 07:01 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
King died February 1952 , old (King's) badges would be used until new ones (Queen's) could be manufactured.

.
I don't know when the Queen's Crown badges would've been available, it may not have taken much time as they were private purchase.
Again, I don't know how long it took after King George VI died before the caps were stamped by appointment to the "Late King", or before Herbert Johnson received the Queen's Warrant.
Never say never, but I'd not rush to buy a post 1952 cap badged up with King's Crown insignia and bearing by appointment to the Queen and not the late King.
Whatever, it ain't WWII although no doubt some sellers would present it as such to boost the price.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-06-21, 05:46 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
King died February 1952 , old (King's) badges would be used until new ones (Queen's) could be manufactured.

.
The nuance to this is that the old badges would be worn until existing stocks ran out. Whilst new k/c badges may not have been manufactured until the sealed patterns were designed, approved and produced, this process would have taken some months and years. Even then the k/c badges in stores would have been issued before any q/c ones were produced.

This saw k/c badges still in use in 1958 when the amalgamations of cavalry and infantry brigade badges replace them with completely new designs. The 8th KRIH were still wearing k/c on amalgamation in 1958 for example.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-06-21, 07:09 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 2,195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
I don't know how long it took after King George VI died before the caps were stamped by appointment to the "Late King".
I read that Warrants expired "no longer than 5 years after death" and the Gazette shows they were still using "Late King" until 1957.

Quote:
SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 2 JANUARY, 1956
ROYAL WARRANTS OF APPOINTMENT TO HIS LATE MAJESTY KING GEORGE VI

Johnson, Herbert (Bond Street), Ltd.
Can't find Gazette details of when Queen granted warrant.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted & Spares for sale/swap
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-06-21, 07:37 AM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,089
Default

Good to date the "Late King" markings.
I'd want a good look at any signs of badge and buttons replacement on that cap.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-06-21, 05:01 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,970
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
I read that Warrants expired "no longer than 5 years after death" and the Gazette shows they were still using "Late King" until 1957.



Can't find Gazette details of when Queen granted warrant.

.
useful info on the late usage of the late king warrant
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-06-21, 06:03 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 2,195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryBB View Post
useful info on the late usage of the late king warrant
It seems the same rule applied for warrants issued by the Queen Mother but have changed with the death of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

Quote:
9th April 2021

Upon the death of a Grantor, their Royal Warrants become void, but provided there are no substantial changes within the Warrant-holding business, the Royal Arms and the Legend may continue to be used for up to two years.

See Rules 12c and 12d of the Lord Chamberlain’s Rules.
https://www.royalwarrant.org/sites/d...%20Holders.pdf

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted & Spares for sale/swap
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-06-21, 06:07 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,089
Default

Again, interesting stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-06-21, 10:01 PM
KLR's Avatar
KLR KLR is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,714
Default

I think I have the change over somewhere - BUT I do know that the Liverpool Irish only changed from KC to QC in 1964 !
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-06-21, 08:16 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,416
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
I read that Warrants expired "no longer than 5 years after death" and the Gazette shows they were still using "Late King" until 1957.



Can't find Gazette details of when Queen granted warrant.

.
I wonder if HM The Queen would have needed Herbert Johnson to make military headwear?
Hence perhaps no QEII Royal Warrant was issued?

Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-06-21, 08:24 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,089
Default

Herbert Johnson caps are marked by appointment to the Queen so presumably the warrant has been granted.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-06-21, 04:46 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 2,195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
I wonder if HM The Queen would have needed Herbert Johnson to make military headwear?
Hence perhaps no QEII Royal Warrant was issued?

Tim
The Royal Appointment was as "Hatter" , they didn't just make military items.


.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted & Spares for sale/swap
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-06-21, 04:28 PM
JerryBB's Avatar
JerryBB JerryBB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 3,970
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Advert from a 1936 copy of the ‘Royal Artillery Journal’ .
Mike,

I have it at 1936-38, and good to see it with an actual date from a period publication


also showing the modern QEII and prince of wales version
Attached Images
File Type: jpg herbert johnson 36-38.jpg (104.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg herbert johnson queen and prince of wales crtop.jpg (65.1 KB, 6 views)
__________________
Regards,

Jerry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:20 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.